The tale of two astronomers

Got a question on astronomy that you'd wanted to ask? Ask your questions here and see if the old timers can give you some good answers.
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klutz
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Post by klutz »

Hey, this tale hasn't end yet. It only wrote what happened after a year. Who knows? Perhaps another 2 yrs down the road, Steve would have found his idea scope and concentrate on the sky, and end up seeing and knowing more than Alfred? And Alfred on the other hand, after seeing so much with his 90mm, decides to upgrade and get more indepth view when he could better afford? :)

I think there's a few people here who are a bit of BOTH. They know the sky well enough and could afford good and better scopes. :)

Anyway, I've come to two conclusions after reading the article and the comments here : One would be happier knowing lesser and alcohol does make everything more beautiful... haha :lol:
You know dat children are growing up when they start asking questions that have answers...

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VinSnr
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Post by VinSnr »

Anyway, I've come to two conclusions after reading the article and the comments here : One would be happier knowing lesser and alcohol does make everything more beautiful... haha :lol:
Hahaha....this is a truly unexpected kind of conclusions.....

But you be a good mum and don't touch alcohol ok..hehe

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MooEy
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Post by MooEy »

i'm a steve, so? both scopes i own are over 1/8 wave, 99% strehl ratio. all eyepieces i own are either taks or televues. i read cloudy nights every weekend the moment i book out from camp. i spend more time drooling over equipment than i ob. i don't see a problem with being a steve.

count the amt of steves(including alfreds converting to steves and steves on their way struggling to be alfreds) around and compare them to the amt of alfreds (true alfreds who still own their 90mm eq achromat refractor and steves who have fully converted to alfreds)

u see, it's not hard to realise that true alfreds are rare compared to steves. steves are the ones that tend to stay in the hobby. alfreds, after owning their equipment and obbing for months after months, tend to either gif up or convert to steves.

back in my club, i rather have 1 steve than have 20 alfreds. at least i know the steves are the ones who will go out, read up on equipment and buy their "ideal" first scope, whereas the alfreds will just enjoy using the club's equipment and when they leave the club, they leave the hobby. also, steves tend to be the ones who knows how to appreciate all the expensive equipment and take gd care of them.

~MooEy~

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VinSnr
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Post by VinSnr »

acc wrote:Hiayo, its just a hobby mah... Whether you a Steve or Alfred, I think what is most important is that you are having fun doing what you are doing. Its just like chicken... Whether you grill it or roast it or fry it or cook it in my curry pot, just enjoy it the way you want! :) :)
!
I think it is not so simple like a meal.

It is like the government telling people that you should marry early and have 3 or more kids. Some people will say, why the governement care so much as to how many kids I should have or when I should get married as long I am happy doing what I am doing? Fact is, there is a long term implication to the society if people do not want to have kids.

Same case here. If all move towards Steve (which is the current trend thesedays), then the appreciation on the art of astro and the equipment will be lost. Astro will become a hobby of collecting scopes or buying/selling rather than utilising them in the best way possible. Instead of talking about M objects (which is Messier objects), we might end up talking about the other M objects (screw threadsize as in M6 or M8). Although we are not at that kind of stage yet, that scenario will happen one day especially when equipments will become cheaper and the skies will become brighter. Question is, do we want the hobby of astro to become that way?

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ariefm71
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Post by ariefm71 »

Vin, are you converted to Alfred now? that's a bad news for most of us :D :D (airconvent would agree)...

just between us, i'm actually making (a little/tiny/weeny bit of) money by buying and selling my stuffs. So, my wallet is a bit healthier after becoming a steve...
Last edited by ariefm71 on Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clittle
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Post by clittle »

MooEy wrote:i'm a steve, so? both scopes i own are over 1/8 wave, 99% strehl ratio. all eyepieces i own are either taks or televues. i read cloudy nights every weekend the moment i book out from camp. i spend more time drooling over equipment than i ob. i don't see a problem with being a steve.

count the amt of steves(including alfreds converting to steves and steves on their way struggling to be alfreds) around and compare them to the amt of alfreds (true alfreds who still own their 90mm eq achromat refractor and steves who have fully converted to alfreds)

u see, it's not hard to realise that true alfreds are rare compared to steves. steves are the ones that tend to stay in the hobby. alfreds, after owning their equipment and obbing for months after months, tend to either gif up or convert to steves.

back in my club, i rather have 1 steve than have 20 alfreds. at least i know the steves are the ones who will go out, read up on equipment and buy their "ideal" first scope, whereas the alfreds will just enjoy using the club's equipment and when they leave the club, they leave the hobby. also, steves tend to be the ones who knows how to appreciate all the expensive equipment and take gd care of them.

~MooEy~
Wrong. Those who tend to stay in the hobby longer are those who are Alfreds. For a simple reason. We human tend to cherish things and experiences that were earned the hard way. If I didn't start with a 60mm refractor back in 1985, I don't think I would have lasted 20 years. And you know what, despite the fact that I have owned 22 scopes before, I still have that little 60mm refractor with me. Why? Because it taught me the true art of astronomy and appreciating the sky. It's my workhorse and a truly wonderful equipment.

In 1985 I started with another friend. I should say a much richer friend. It was him who started me with astronomy. While I could only afford a 60mm, he could possibly buy anything. While I lasted 20 years, he lasted only 5 years. You know why? Because as he buy and sell scopes, he realised that astronomy cost a lot of money. Not long he gave up. His focus was on the scopes....not the sky. I think he spent at least $20,000 (around $100,000 in today's money) without even seeing half of the Messier objects. Maybe he is happy....but is this what we want to teach our kids on astronomy?

Today, I am 46 and I would be amazed if any young punks walk up to me and tell me how he manage to find M104. Or how he measure a double star separation. No....not likely. Most probably he will tell me how much money he has lost selling his scope which he has just own for 2 months. And ironically, this same young punk would attend my astronomy lecture but would go back and do his scope merchandising business again. He shouldn't be in astronomy. He should be doing a telescope trading business called Steve trading.

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ariefm71
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Post by ariefm71 »

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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MooEy
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Post by MooEy »

i started astro roughly 3-4 years ago. was back in a poly astro club. they had sp-c8 over there, with 6x30 finders and 30mm eyepieces. to many of u guys, those are gd scopes. but to me, i never liked them. the long focal length of the c8, together with the 30mm eyepieces made me feel clastrophobic. the mounts were overloaded and shaky. the finder was dim and of not much use in singapore. i struggled for weeks, trying to find simple objects like m6 and m7.

eventaully i got to play with a 4" apo, together with a 50mm finder on a much more sturdy gpdx mount. that single night, i realise how much more easier it was to do obbing with such a scope. the large tfov allows me to scan a large area, and the much brighter finder easily showed the star clusters. the performance of the apo were so gd, the cluster showed lots of tiny little pin point stars, and looked really like a cluster. planetary was even better, tack sharp images of planets, so real i couldn't believe my eyes. however, one have to note the apo setup was heavy, way more than wat 2 person can handle.

i could never forget those days, the difference equipment make is pretty significant. one should never scrimp on equipment, esp accessories.

eventually i started to browse websites on reviews. digesting one after one. soon i found myself going around looking thru many many different scopes, racking in and out the focusers. playing with many different scopes, mount and eyepieces.

i had on my mind that i wanted a refractor, a good refractor. i knew that 4" was too big, so i settle for a simple 3", hook it up with a alt-az mount, buy a large 50mm finder, grab a nice 2" diagonal and a nice TV plossl. life happily ever after. although the scope was slightly miscollimated, i got it fixed shortly. i found myself liking the setup so much that i did lots of obbing on it. i found so many objects that i had previously struggled with that sp-c8.

eventually i found myself reading more and more reviews, buying up more and more premium stuff.

now i look back, had i gotten a simple sp-c8 setup right from the start and do wat alfred did, i prolly would have quited this hobby straight. y struggle when u can be steve.

~MooEy~

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VinSnr
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Post by VinSnr »

ariefm71 wrote:Vin, are you converted to Alfred now? that's a bad news for most of us :D :D (airconvent would agree)...

just between us, i'm actually making (a little/tiny/weeny bit of) money by buying and selling my stuffs. So, my wallet is a bit healthier after becoming a steve...
Well, started as a Alfred (I think most old timers started as Alfred), later become Steve and now think should go back to Alfred. Then next time Steve again.

Just like a country's economy. You have good times, then recession, good times again, recession again. A healthy economy should be this way.

I think as long one has a balance of Alfred and Steve, one should be ok. The only danger is when one become an extreme Steve or extreme Alfred.

As for you..aiyoh I know your business la. That's why i say if you are not Steve, I would be Stevie Wonder hehe

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VinSnr
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Post by VinSnr »

I don't think I would have lasted 20 years. And you know what, despite the fact that I have owned 22 scopes before, I still have that little 60mm refractor with me. Why? Because it taught me the true art of astronomy and appreciating the sky. It's my workhorse and a truly wonderful equipment.
.
:shock: :shock: 22 scopes???

Can share?? :twisted:

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