To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

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Fuzzball
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To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by Fuzzball »

Hi all,

I am making a decision the next few days to either go for a c11 or the c9.25.
My reason for considering the C11 is:

1.bigger aperture/light gathering
2. OTA weight is 12.4kg ( Still manageable...barely). The CPC11/9.25 I had before will be an overkill. OTA and fork mount is 20+kg already without tripod.
3. visual viewing only.

My concern:
1. My set up is Ioptron minitower pro and tripod/eyepieces/power supply etc. Probably for whole mount and tripod set average weight 12Kg. With the c11 I am not sure if it will be too much for me to manage. I had the CPC9.25 before too much weight for me to handle and gave it up in the end.

Secondly, my consideration is the the c9.25, the reason are:

1. Portability, Portability, Portability. Total weight for OTA 9.5kg.
2. Visual observation only.
3. Experience using the c9.25.

My concern:

1. Am I foregoing too much aperture/light gathering capabilities? I understand that c11 is 40% more light gathering that the C9.25.
2. Will I regret knowing I could have gone with the c11 bud did not?
3. Is the weight difference really that big or is it negligible c9.25 vs c11? 9.5kg vs 12.4kg.

I appreciate all the advise that can come my way. I just don't want to make the mistake I did with the CPC9.25 which the whole set up was 38kg and it was so much of a chore just transporting it alone.

Thanks and appreciate it. Happy CNY!
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acc
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by acc »

hmm if you are going for visual only and want big aperture, have you considered a truss dob? The C11 is a beast to handle.
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Canopus Lim
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by Canopus Lim »

Hi,

I would think you should place a lot of emphasis on portability or transportability and setup time. My 12.5" truss dob is fully assembled and placed on a hand truck; it can be disassembled and placed onto 1 trolley and it is very manageable by one person (been doing that for 6 years already).. This allows me to just push the scope to the garden and do a simple collimation and done! I am able to observe within 10min including bringing down my eyepieces, field chair and other accessories. Since now I am very busy taking care of my baby, setup time is really very important. A few minutes difference can kill the hobby. With a SCT and mount and tripod etc, I would think it will take pretty long to setup and to even transport (since they are many pieces). Probably, you can consider about a 10" tube dob or 10 to 12.5" truss dob and place it on a hand truck.
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Gary
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by Gary »

Perhaps another way that can help in the decision making is to answer the following questions honestly:

(1) What objects do I prefer to see more of and which of these scope does a better job?

(2) How far in distance am I willing to bring the scope out when the skies are clear? e.g balcony, garden, just outside my house, dark sites in Singapore, outside of Singapore?

After answering these questions, you may suffer less buyers remorse in the future. You may even end up considering a different scope design or aperture size.
Last edited by Gary on Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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orly_andico
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by orly_andico »

everybody wants the theoretical "biggest and best" that they can afford..

but then may not consider the usability of what they have chosen.

granted the past 3-4 months have really been terrible for observing. But if you have a balcony or garden, in my opinion the best setup is the one you can leave set up and ready to go, under a Scopeguard cover.

I guess if you can carry it to your observing location in 5 minutes that's good too. But for me it has to be fixed in place because polar alignment takes so long to do well... [smilie=beaten.gif]

and about that minitower pro.. can you verify that it can carry a C11 without being supertuned?

as I understand Steve Forbes / Trapezium Telescopes has gone AWOL. So where will you have the minitower pro tuned then..
Fuzzball
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by Fuzzball »

Hi all

Thanks, I really need the advice. I had the CPC9.25 ( Fork mounted version) before and it was 26kg for the ota and mount alone [smilie=bleeding.gif] . The c11 no matter what, is going to be less than half of what I used to handle. Exactly because I was in the position of having a heavy scope before that I am threading this purchase with extra care. I am really steering towards a c11....but....I want no regrets.

My plan is to test lift both the c11 and c9.25 OTA to know what I can handle. I am also taken in by the fact that after reading books such as Rod Mollise " Urban Astronomer" that the best scope for the city is the largest aperture scope with the lightest weight to deal with the heavy light pollution.

For Orly questions,

My observation site will probably not be as ideal as 5 minutes. I probably need to take a cab or transport to the place. I have also checked with the Ioptron vendor the c11 can sit well on the minitower pro, albeit it may be near its load maximum capacity. The enhance mount by Steve Forbes is based on a minitower not a minitower pro and I have picture from the Steves forbes website which shows that even the minitower can carry a c11 [smilie=cheer.gif]

For Gary questions:

I definitely want to see DSOs! and not just moon, planets etc... ( you do get bored after a while)
I don't mind going to dark site ( if there are any left) in Singapore for observations but still prefer somewhere convenient like a garden or park around my estate.

For Canopus and Acc:

I have been a SCT user for a while, therefore I still prefer this model of scope...no offense to Dobsonian users :mryellow:
I would prefer to stick to the same telescope configuration. Btw Canopus, congrats on your baby! I have a young toddler too (2.8 years) and I understand what you mean.

My question really is:

1) Should this setting up and portability be something I should really be too bothered about? Between the c9.25 and c11 the weight difference is a mere 3 kgs. Will that 3 kg really "break the camels back" as a set up for me.
2) Have anyone tried the c11 before? what is your experience personally?
3) Based on just "gut feel", what do you think I should go for; c11 or c9.25? I just want your opinions!

Thanks for all the help, gurus!
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Gary
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by Gary »

Hi Fuzzball. Unfortunately, Singapore sky is not good for visually enjoying DSOs satisfactorily but much better for planets, moon and sun. No matter what scope you finally decide on getting, do consider spending a portion of your total budget on travelling to darker skies in Malaysia or other neighbouring countries if you can afford the time.

You will see much more DSOs in one clear night in Johor using a smaller SCT than you will ever see in Singapore in one year using a bigger SCT. Base on memory alone, I think there are less than 4 really clear nights in Singapore for the whole of 2011. Even during those clearest few nights, the visual quality of DSOs is still much lower than a "normal" clear night in Johor.

To further illustrate my point, lets say you have a budget of USD $1995 and want to get the best DSO observing value out of it, and you can only do one of the following:

(1) Spend all of it on a C11 OTA and only use it in Singapore and observe every single night for 365 nights.

(2) Buy a C8 at USD $889 and use the rest of the money and go for 10 Punggai trips (e.g. SGD $140 per trip) with a C8.

Which option will you choose? Personally, I will choose option 2.

During my last trip to Johor in late 2011, the Orion nebula was very clear on the last 2 nights (spotted E star in the trapezium for the first time). After getting blown away by the view in my C8 (my best of M42 so far), I used my 80mm achromatic refractor and observe it. The nebulosity still look MUCH better than the view through my 8" SCT *in Singapore*! The wideview framing was a nice bonus too.

Fortunately for me I guess, I still do enjoy observing planets, moon and sun. So observing them here in Singapore still makes me enjoy my hobby and sidewalk sessions. I will continue to get my main DSO fix in Johor until I can find a better, cheaper, more easily accessible and comfortable dark clear sky location.
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andeelym
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by andeelym »

Steve supercharges both MT and MT-PRO, I just recently received my super-charged MT-PRO from him. Actually not much diff between MT and MT-PRO, just a beefier tripod at the end of the day.

If using the C11 is nearing the payload, then I would suggest you step-down on the scope or step-up on another mount, cos you will never be using the C11 alone. You'll eventually go for better (and heavier) eyepieces, better (of cos heavier) diagonals and better (you know already... heavier)everything, perhaps even 2" stuff. By then, the MT will be struggling and you'll need to buy another mount.

I'd suggest that you go for a 8" SCT or MCT for moon and planets and get another "short" to "medium" refractor for widefield and DSOs. That way, you can even piggyback mount both scopes and the MT still can breathe and IMHO, the only way top truly enjoy DSOs is to image them. Our eyes just cannot pick up the colours.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Fuzzball
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by Fuzzball »

Hi Andeelym

Heart is saying c11. Everything else says 9.25 or below.

Btw, the payload capacity says 33lbs for M Pro. I have tabulated the C11, with 2inch Naglers, powermate, diagonal will come up to 32 lbs. The mount should still work properly and tracking accurate, right?

I already have an 8 inch for grab and go and Wilson Zenith star 80mm. My original idea was more aperture on the main scope.

But now I guess there are more considerations.

Thanks!
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orly_andico
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Re: To plunge or not to plunge!? The new telescope dilemma

Post by orly_andico »

It's never a good idea to overload a China mount, which is what the iOptron is. [smilie=beaten.gif]

Now maybe I am overly sensitive to jiggling, but IMHO my C9.25 on CGEM is not stable enough. The CGEM is "40lb rated."

Your mileage may vary.
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