Post this video here as it's useful tips for parents who are too busy to spend hours browsing internet forums.
Seen some who bought those long tube refractor on yoke mount or bird-jones on equatorial mount , when they try to sell also no takers.
Video noted to avoid these yoke+rod mount (ss explorer LT 80az) and bird-jones (powerseeker127) as they are not user-friendly.
Other bad designs mentioned are plastic 5x24 finder-scope , plastic photo tripod , 45 degree diagonal.
I don't have any specific model available locally to recommend as it's a combination of availability & price , portability if outside home , dry storage.
9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
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Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
-
Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
Re: 9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
The yoke and rod mount mentioned in above video is this red color part in my drawing.
It's to reduce manufacturer cost and weight , design is not user-friendly.
In most product images the telescope is pointed upwards at an angle , for beginner EQ mount this may not be applicable to Singapore.
On the left Is copy of internet product photo , on the right is the mount adjusted down for Singapore latitude near the Equator.
The counterweight may collide with the tripod leg. Center of mass also shift away to concentrate on less legs.
The scope shouldn't be displayed in open air or living room bedroom. Humidity level in Singapore is too high , it will grow fungus.
You need to store it in an airtight case or sealed plastic , with dehumidifying equipment. Consider these extra cost within your overall budget.
At the very least , the rechargeable silica gel gadgets cost $15 , excluding airtight case or plastic bag.
Search keyword 'mini dehumidifier" there are older cylinder shape and newer purse shape. Bigger or heavier is better as more silica gel beads inside , don't get too small.
It's necessary to have hygrometer to estimate when you need to recharge the silica gel gadget or if electronic dry cabinet is functioning.
I'm using multiples of these $2 hygrometer , mixed success as some cannot be accurate at the required 30-50% RH range after tune the needle.
30% Relative humidity is fine , 50% is time to recharge ASAP when you have time. When your airtight case is big the single dehumidifier cannot pull it below 40%.
Many beginner Celestron telescopes have this ball shaped diagonal. It's fine for lower magnification but you should upgrade to better diagonal for 100x magnification on Moon or planets.
There will be noticeable improvement in image quality and image brightness , for very little extra cost.
Celestron included these ball shape diagonal because the image is correct for reading & viewing , to market the telescope as dual purpose for daytime nature.
This is example of proper astronomy diagonal for beginners.
Inside is a simple flat mirror or a triangle prism. Image will be inverted left-right.
In the past it cost about $20-30 online brand new. Now there are better options like the Svbony dielectric diagonal for $37 to 50.
Upgrade away from the ball shaped diagonal that bottleneck the telescope , instead of buying color filter or barlow kits.
There is no need to buy the telescope or tripod together within the same package or same brand.
You can mix different brands for best results in stability or budget savings.
To consider the different accessory options require a lot of homework reading.
It's to reduce manufacturer cost and weight , design is not user-friendly.
In most product images the telescope is pointed upwards at an angle , for beginner EQ mount this may not be applicable to Singapore.
On the left Is copy of internet product photo , on the right is the mount adjusted down for Singapore latitude near the Equator.
The counterweight may collide with the tripod leg. Center of mass also shift away to concentrate on less legs.
The scope shouldn't be displayed in open air or living room bedroom. Humidity level in Singapore is too high , it will grow fungus.
You need to store it in an airtight case or sealed plastic , with dehumidifying equipment. Consider these extra cost within your overall budget.
At the very least , the rechargeable silica gel gadgets cost $15 , excluding airtight case or plastic bag.
Search keyword 'mini dehumidifier" there are older cylinder shape and newer purse shape. Bigger or heavier is better as more silica gel beads inside , don't get too small.
It's necessary to have hygrometer to estimate when you need to recharge the silica gel gadget or if electronic dry cabinet is functioning.
I'm using multiples of these $2 hygrometer , mixed success as some cannot be accurate at the required 30-50% RH range after tune the needle.
30% Relative humidity is fine , 50% is time to recharge ASAP when you have time. When your airtight case is big the single dehumidifier cannot pull it below 40%.
Many beginner Celestron telescopes have this ball shaped diagonal. It's fine for lower magnification but you should upgrade to better diagonal for 100x magnification on Moon or planets.
There will be noticeable improvement in image quality and image brightness , for very little extra cost.
Celestron included these ball shape diagonal because the image is correct for reading & viewing , to market the telescope as dual purpose for daytime nature.
This is example of proper astronomy diagonal for beginners.
Inside is a simple flat mirror or a triangle prism. Image will be inverted left-right.
In the past it cost about $20-30 online brand new. Now there are better options like the Svbony dielectric diagonal for $37 to 50.
Upgrade away from the ball shaped diagonal that bottleneck the telescope , instead of buying color filter or barlow kits.
There is no need to buy the telescope or tripod together within the same package or same brand.
You can mix different brands for best results in stability or budget savings.
To consider the different accessory options require a lot of homework reading.
-
Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
Re: 9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
The Youtuber published a new video 2 days ago on the same topic.
Better than other recommendation videos that have strong bias of only recommending amazon and svbony due to commission.
Only about half applicable in Singapore context , since our price and availability is different and long tube achromat refractor cannot be easily or affordably stored in dry box or cabinet. Plastic bag solution isn't explored yet.
For the NexYZ phone bracket mentioned , you can get it at taobao , lazada .aliexpress for slightly over SGD $30
When considering a value of a whole package , don't let the bundled "free" eyepieces affect your decision making.
They are usable for beginner's first 1-2 months or first few usage sessions. Either the user lose interest in the hobby and neglect the telescope or he/she continue the hobby and start to buy more eyepieces of medium to high quality.
Cardboard box have zero resale value , some mistakenly use the original box as the storage case or buy a fabric bag as storage.
Fungus like dark environment and stagnant humid air. These are perfect surface area for it to grow and migrate onto the telescope.
When the telescope or binocular was shipped from factory , it had a tied plastic bag and small packet of silica gel. Once the storage duration is too long or opened once in our humid air , that packet of silica gel lost it's effectiveness.
Better than other recommendation videos that have strong bias of only recommending amazon and svbony due to commission.
Only about half applicable in Singapore context , since our price and availability is different and long tube achromat refractor cannot be easily or affordably stored in dry box or cabinet. Plastic bag solution isn't explored yet.
For the NexYZ phone bracket mentioned , you can get it at taobao , lazada .aliexpress for slightly over SGD $30
When considering a value of a whole package , don't let the bundled "free" eyepieces affect your decision making.
They are usable for beginner's first 1-2 months or first few usage sessions. Either the user lose interest in the hobby and neglect the telescope or he/she continue the hobby and start to buy more eyepieces of medium to high quality.
Cardboard box have zero resale value , some mistakenly use the original box as the storage case or buy a fabric bag as storage.
Fungus like dark environment and stagnant humid air. These are perfect surface area for it to grow and migrate onto the telescope.
When the telescope or binocular was shipped from factory , it had a tied plastic bag and small packet of silica gel. Once the storage duration is too long or opened once in our humid air , that packet of silica gel lost it's effectiveness.
-
Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
Re: 9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
Based on second-hand ads , about 10-20% of the scopes in Singapore are these newt on EQ , 70-80% are achro refractors. Less than 15% are serious scopes.
Telescopes that you should avoid.
Telescopes that you should avoid.
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Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
Re: 9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
New video by Ed about another common scope to avoid buying.
From 5 minutes on he explains the bad parts of the scope.
The yoke & rod mount is limited to only around 33x magnification, too much vibration with even the bundled 25mm eyepiece.
From 5 minutes on he explains the bad parts of the scope.
The yoke & rod mount is limited to only around 33x magnification, too much vibration with even the bundled 25mm eyepiece.
-
Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
Re: 9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
My personal opinions to help uplift understanding ASAP. May not be 100% accurate fact. Experts are welcomed to chip in or correct me with your experience, don't stay silent.
Q: Wear spectacle ?
A: I don't know if you should wear or not when using scope or bino.
Do note the recommended eye relief requirement if you want to wear spec , online consensus about 15-22mm are required. There are plenty of cheap binocular that are 13-15mm eye relief which means you are limited from the start. There are also same priced binocular and telescope eyepieces at 15-22mm eye relief , you just have to find them online. I personally don't wear spec and prefer 15mm+ eye relief , no plossl below 25mm , that eyepiece kit with a bundle of 6 plossls only the 32mm is buy-able.
Q: Use camera tripod ?
A: Moon and planets move around not stationary horizontal target , scope pointed extreme upwards angle will unbalance want to tilt flop backwards.
When you lock and hands-off , the tripod head sag backward and that micro change is enough for planet jump out of view at higher magnification.
This frustrating effect is more obvious in lower quality plastic camera tripod.
Q: Pale blue coating on binocular rear eyepiece
A: Will have reflection distraction when light behind you.
Plenty of internet seller photoshop fake-looking blue or green bright coating onto the front of cheap bino and telescope. Real actual purpose you want the coating to look as transparent or deep as possible , opposite of internet seller making it brighter to show you the feature is there.
Deep green is broadband anti-reflection multi-coating and more common these recent 2 decades of internet shopping.
I personally think it's an excuse for a bino at $50-100 price to be stuck at outdated inferior blue coating because I can find green coating 10x50 binocular at $50 , the cost difference at the OEM factory should be minimal.
Purple coating is acceptable and the mid-point between blue and green. Newer coating better than green can look purple too. Not all purple are same.
Q: Vibration
A: Vibration is a major source of frustration in non-electronic telescope without tracking feature when using medium to higher magnification.
Affects ability to reach sharpest point when turning focus knob as you need to wait a few seconds to test the result of small focus adjustment.
Factory all-in-one kit save material cost by pairing inadequate tripod and mount head to carry the relatively bigger telescope. Consumer buyer are more attracted to bigger telescope for the money.
Tripod and mount head with higher load carrying capacity is naturally more expensive and less portable.
Best case scenario is buying the scope and mount+tripod separate , example if your intended telescope + accessories is 4-5kg then you buy a mount that is capable of 5-10kg.
Don't pair a 5 with a 5 leaving no extra headroom. Longer tube length is higher vibration at equal weight , treat a 3kg long tube equivalent to 4kg shorter tube.
Q: Put in living room , bedroom , store in bag or original cardboard
A: High chance to grow visible fungus in about 3 years ? Think about it as near the expiry lifespan of canned food.
The fungus start to grow in weeks or months , initially microscopic until eventually visible and expand outwards. When visible it blocks light and reduce effective surface area.
Well known problem within the local DSLR camera hobby but not within the consciousness of most 1st time telescope buyers. Who would have thought buying a toy can be so complex.
This consideration extend to transport bag and protection case options too , multiple bags = multiple wash.
I have a 32mm plossl from aliexpress , used for a few minutes and went into my main dry cabinet no caps , 1 year later it have fungus on the interior. The exposure time during warehouse and delivery was enough for fungus to take root and later dry storage couldn't pull out the trapped pocket of bad air or halt it's growth. Discovered early there wasn't permanent damage and plossl eyepiece is relatively easy to disassemble for cleaning.
Q: Seller advertisement says "perfect for beginners"
A: The video in first post of this topic summarize it well , buying a guitar without strings and expecting to be musician.
Most entry-level price all-in-one kit (telescope+tripod together) have design flaws or inadequacy.
Some common products have bigger flaws that increase frustration and disappointment to the point first telescope is also last telescope , acting as natural barrier filter only the most passionate dare to buy a second better telescope.
Almost all $100 telecopes are labeled "perfect for beginners" and paired with my above theory , I think the "buy cheaper try try first" tactic isn't so straightforward because testing interest level need to use tool not toy.
Bad products can be best sellers as it's priced into the sweet spot of budget level. I remember around 2012 I felt it was incredible to see the 130mm EQ astromaster newtonian at under $400 on amazon but chicken out at last moment , in hindsight I might get frustrated by that complex EQ , inverted view , plastic focuser & rd finder to not expand further.
Q: color filter , 2x barlow , accessories
A: Skip it on initial purchase , there isn't any hard rule you need everything assembled on day 1
You can easily buy select individual items later as you understand more.
It is common to see selling advertisement of the entire package with extra accessories all new because the recipient doesn't want to play with the gift.
The 2x barlow in plastic tube , as mentioned in above videos , is frequently included in beginner kits to exaggerate the maximum magnification capability way beyond actual. The real value of the plastic barlow is closer to $0-$4 , you can get a metal 2x barlow with proper glass optics proper coating for around $15 on aliexpress.
Bundled free eyepiece with tiny hole tend to hint it will be uncomfortable to use.
Online consensus (Cloudynights Forum) of using color filter is need a bigger telescope maybe in the 6-8 inch at minimum.
Q: Taking photo with phone at outdoor sidewalk shared telescope
A: The telescope eyepiece shows a small circle of light within a black circle against a brighter actual floor we step on.
Some phone camera ignore the smaller dot & dark circle , switching camera lens to look at the floor , you need to find the setting to only use the main lens. It is hard to perfectly hold the phone aligned , initial photos are blurry , too bright or too dim.
There are phone clamp products to grip onto the telescope or binocular eyepiece. Clamps are low-tech products so be aware don't get over-excited to buy it together with telescope at a price premium , remember they are always there on aliexpress waiting for you in the future when you need it.
Q: Weather
A: When I just started the hobby I do get excited when weather opportunity allow playing with new telescope.
Now for consistently same time on specific Saturday every month over past 3 years , I would say the chances are only about 35-45% max. 2/3 chance of overwhelming clouds. With human lights growing everywhere the visible stars reduce.
Q: Wear spectacle ?
A: I don't know if you should wear or not when using scope or bino.
Do note the recommended eye relief requirement if you want to wear spec , online consensus about 15-22mm are required. There are plenty of cheap binocular that are 13-15mm eye relief which means you are limited from the start. There are also same priced binocular and telescope eyepieces at 15-22mm eye relief , you just have to find them online. I personally don't wear spec and prefer 15mm+ eye relief , no plossl below 25mm , that eyepiece kit with a bundle of 6 plossls only the 32mm is buy-able.
Q: Use camera tripod ?
A: Moon and planets move around not stationary horizontal target , scope pointed extreme upwards angle will unbalance want to tilt flop backwards.
When you lock and hands-off , the tripod head sag backward and that micro change is enough for planet jump out of view at higher magnification.
This frustrating effect is more obvious in lower quality plastic camera tripod.
Q: Pale blue coating on binocular rear eyepiece
A: Will have reflection distraction when light behind you.
Plenty of internet seller photoshop fake-looking blue or green bright coating onto the front of cheap bino and telescope. Real actual purpose you want the coating to look as transparent or deep as possible , opposite of internet seller making it brighter to show you the feature is there.
Deep green is broadband anti-reflection multi-coating and more common these recent 2 decades of internet shopping.
I personally think it's an excuse for a bino at $50-100 price to be stuck at outdated inferior blue coating because I can find green coating 10x50 binocular at $50 , the cost difference at the OEM factory should be minimal.
Purple coating is acceptable and the mid-point between blue and green. Newer coating better than green can look purple too. Not all purple are same.
Q: Vibration
A: Vibration is a major source of frustration in non-electronic telescope without tracking feature when using medium to higher magnification.
Affects ability to reach sharpest point when turning focus knob as you need to wait a few seconds to test the result of small focus adjustment.
Factory all-in-one kit save material cost by pairing inadequate tripod and mount head to carry the relatively bigger telescope. Consumer buyer are more attracted to bigger telescope for the money.
Tripod and mount head with higher load carrying capacity is naturally more expensive and less portable.
Best case scenario is buying the scope and mount+tripod separate , example if your intended telescope + accessories is 4-5kg then you buy a mount that is capable of 5-10kg.
Don't pair a 5 with a 5 leaving no extra headroom. Longer tube length is higher vibration at equal weight , treat a 3kg long tube equivalent to 4kg shorter tube.
Q: Put in living room , bedroom , store in bag or original cardboard
A: High chance to grow visible fungus in about 3 years ? Think about it as near the expiry lifespan of canned food.
The fungus start to grow in weeks or months , initially microscopic until eventually visible and expand outwards. When visible it blocks light and reduce effective surface area.
Well known problem within the local DSLR camera hobby but not within the consciousness of most 1st time telescope buyers. Who would have thought buying a toy can be so complex.
This consideration extend to transport bag and protection case options too , multiple bags = multiple wash.
I have a 32mm plossl from aliexpress , used for a few minutes and went into my main dry cabinet no caps , 1 year later it have fungus on the interior. The exposure time during warehouse and delivery was enough for fungus to take root and later dry storage couldn't pull out the trapped pocket of bad air or halt it's growth. Discovered early there wasn't permanent damage and plossl eyepiece is relatively easy to disassemble for cleaning.
Q: Seller advertisement says "perfect for beginners"
A: The video in first post of this topic summarize it well , buying a guitar without strings and expecting to be musician.
Most entry-level price all-in-one kit (telescope+tripod together) have design flaws or inadequacy.
Some common products have bigger flaws that increase frustration and disappointment to the point first telescope is also last telescope , acting as natural barrier filter only the most passionate dare to buy a second better telescope.
Almost all $100 telecopes are labeled "perfect for beginners" and paired with my above theory , I think the "buy cheaper try try first" tactic isn't so straightforward because testing interest level need to use tool not toy.
Bad products can be best sellers as it's priced into the sweet spot of budget level. I remember around 2012 I felt it was incredible to see the 130mm EQ astromaster newtonian at under $400 on amazon but chicken out at last moment , in hindsight I might get frustrated by that complex EQ , inverted view , plastic focuser & rd finder to not expand further.
Q: color filter , 2x barlow , accessories
A: Skip it on initial purchase , there isn't any hard rule you need everything assembled on day 1
You can easily buy select individual items later as you understand more.
It is common to see selling advertisement of the entire package with extra accessories all new because the recipient doesn't want to play with the gift.
The 2x barlow in plastic tube , as mentioned in above videos , is frequently included in beginner kits to exaggerate the maximum magnification capability way beyond actual. The real value of the plastic barlow is closer to $0-$4 , you can get a metal 2x barlow with proper glass optics proper coating for around $15 on aliexpress.
Bundled free eyepiece with tiny hole tend to hint it will be uncomfortable to use.
Online consensus (Cloudynights Forum) of using color filter is need a bigger telescope maybe in the 6-8 inch at minimum.
Q: Taking photo with phone at outdoor sidewalk shared telescope
A: The telescope eyepiece shows a small circle of light within a black circle against a brighter actual floor we step on.
Some phone camera ignore the smaller dot & dark circle , switching camera lens to look at the floor , you need to find the setting to only use the main lens. It is hard to perfectly hold the phone aligned , initial photos are blurry , too bright or too dim.
There are phone clamp products to grip onto the telescope or binocular eyepiece. Clamps are low-tech products so be aware don't get over-excited to buy it together with telescope at a price premium , remember they are always there on aliexpress waiting for you in the future when you need it.
Q: Weather
A: When I just started the hobby I do get excited when weather opportunity allow playing with new telescope.
Now for consistently same time on specific Saturday every month over past 3 years , I would say the chances are only about 35-45% max. 2/3 chance of overwhelming clouds. With human lights growing everywhere the visible stars reduce.
-
Hardwarezone
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:50 am
- Favourite scope: maksutov
Re: 9 minute Youtube video before buying your first telescope
This is the best seller telescope worldwide. F30070M
Cost about $30-50 new , second-hand local is $10-50. Production cost at China factory is said to be about US$10 (info source youtube comment)
I do not recommend it. This video below explains the flaws.
Limited to 15x magnification.
Bad finderscope , uncoated front lens , useless additional eyepiece and barlow.
Bundled 0.965" size 20mm Eyepiece narrow viewing angle of 40 afov , modern 1.25" size beginner eyepiece (sold separately about$30) are 50-66 afov.
Tripod limited to 0 to 45 degrees above horizon where atmosphere is thickest , for astronomy we look higher angle at 45 to 90 degrees.
The design and user comfort goes reverse by 30 years to fit into the production cost limit.
Blur and uncomfortable telescope does not nurture child's interest in science or the hobby.
On Lazada the new price can be lower than second-hand price. Don't buy , just skip it.
Cost about $30-50 new , second-hand local is $10-50. Production cost at China factory is said to be about US$10 (info source youtube comment)
I do not recommend it. This video below explains the flaws.
Limited to 15x magnification.
Bad finderscope , uncoated front lens , useless additional eyepiece and barlow.
Bundled 0.965" size 20mm Eyepiece narrow viewing angle of 40 afov , modern 1.25" size beginner eyepiece (sold separately about$30) are 50-66 afov.
Tripod limited to 0 to 45 degrees above horizon where atmosphere is thickest , for astronomy we look higher angle at 45 to 90 degrees.
The design and user comfort goes reverse by 30 years to fit into the production cost limit.
Blur and uncomfortable telescope does not nurture child's interest in science or the hobby.
On Lazada the new price can be lower than second-hand price. Don't buy , just skip it.