Is Goto mount really necassary? If so at what price?

blurblock · Post by **blurblock** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:28 am

I was surfing around looking at prices of Telescopes which I found a large descrepency in prices between the same telescope is mounted on a "Goto" Mount and a non goto mount.

It makes me wonder if Goto mount is really necassary for Astronomers?

Case 1

Celestron C10N vs Celestron C10-NGT

Both the C10-N and C10-NGT share the same following descriptions :-

254mm (10.0") Newtonian Reflector Optical Design
1200 mm f/4.7 Focal Length
Adjustable 2" Steel Leg Tripod with Accessory Tray/Leg Brace
Right Ascension and Declination Setting Circles
Slow Motion Control Knobs on Both Axes
2" Rack & Pinion Focuser with 1-1/4" adapter
Telescope Weight: 83 lb.

NGT has the additional items

40,000+ object database, 400 user defined programmable objects.
Enhanced information on over 200 objects
Double line, 16 character Liquid Crystal Display; Hand Control
DC Servo Motors with Encoders on both Axes
4º/second Max. Slew Speed
RS-232 communication port on hand control
Auxiliary Port and Autoguider Port on motor drive

--------------------

Now, take for example if a person wishes to buy a telescope, C10-N cost US$814.85 and C10-NGT cost US$1134.95, excluding Shipping. For the US$320 or ~S$540.

The advantage for newbies and experienced astronomers will be able to pin point stars and objects in the sky easily, with RS323, they would be able to control the telescope via their computer and pick up updated from their laptop.

The Disadvantage, however, is the human nature of adapting. Once a person is adapted to computerised Mount, he might lose the skill of tracking the stars manually and lose the drive to slowly pick up stars visually.

Thus, is the advantage of immediate star tracking a boon or a bane?

Just hope for some input from experienced astronomer.

Thank You.

harlequin2902 · Post by **harlequin2902** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:28 pm

It makes me wonder if Goto mount is really necassary for Astronomers?

In my opinion, for us amateurs, GOTO is definately not a necessity - just a nice-to-have or fun-to-have.

I think for most (visual) amatur astronomers, it's also actually more fun to nail challenging deep sky objects on your own ability. That kind of feeling you get is absolutely priceless. You'll also tend to learn more about the sky in manual mode, because once you spend quality time to find an object on your own, you will almost never really need a star chart for the same object again.

I did have a lot of fun when I used to own a small 4" GOTO. But after that, I downgraded to a small Refractor and reduced myself to manual mode with just a red dot finderscope. I've learnt so much more about the sky since then. Never regretted ... but will one day buy the same GOTO scope again, just for fun !

.

Post by **acc** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:39 pm

Hi Blurblock
I think it all boils down to individual preference. For me, I really love the convenience of GOTO. For someone with a lack of patience and perseverance, I love to be able to spend my time looking at DSOs instead of hunting for them... I believe that had I started out with star-hopping instead of GOTO when I entered this hobby, I would have given up after a while due to the frustrations of hunting for objects with the limited observing time that I have. GOTO thought me the basics of navigating the skies (you have to hunt for suitable alignment stars for GOTO to work, and the controllers - especially Meade's Autostar - are packed with wonderful tidbits of information on the objects u are observing ) and now, I have 'progressed' to non-GOTO scopes. However, one main advantage of non-GOTO is the freedom from lugging around brick batteries and wires. This freedom of course doens't apply to EQ mounts that have motors installed for the RA and Dec axis. If you are purely into visual observing, I would recommend a good alt-az mount as they are much easier and faster to setup. If the mount has GOTO, that will be even better 8)

cheers
cc

blurblock · Post by **blurblock** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:03 pm

Hi,

I understand both views, however, taking into consideration the polaris is almost invisable to us as we are way to near to the equator (frankly speaking, I cannot find the polaris, yet .... so will someone please help me identify it ;) ), a Goto mount can pinpoint to any stars as a reference, isn't that easier to Newbies like me?

On the hind side, however, Newbies like me will never learn to manually track the stars, since goto is there.

Taking the analogy of driving Automatic car, a manual car driver can definately drive an automatic car, but an automatic car driver might never know how to drive a manual car.

fizzy123 · Post by **fizzy123** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:20 pm

Goto may not be suitable as in light polluted sky of Singapore, most of time spent is to view planets, thus goto is not needed.

Post by **VinSnr** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:41 pm

blurblock wrote:Hi,

I understand both views, however, taking into consideration the polaris is almost invisable to us as we are way to near to the equator (frankly speaking, I cannot find the polaris, yet .... so will someone please help me identify it ;) ), a Goto mount can pinpoint to any stars as a reference, isn't that easier to Newbies like me?

On the hind side, however, Newbies like me will never learn to manually track the stars, since goto is there.

Taking the analogy of driving Automatic car, a manual car driver can definately drive an automatic car, but an automatic car driver might never know how to drive a manual car.

I started off 17 years ago using a simple alt-azi mount. In fact it was so simple that I have to look for tents pole to extend the legs. But it was really fun back then. The joy of nailing each deep sky object using a 40mm scope (a norm back those days) is something that I can't feel these days. Using a small scope and a simple mount back then had taught me to be patient, learn to train the eyes to pick out the dimmest details and learn to star-hop.

I don't expect newbies these days to do back exactly like the way I did. But if you want to start off this hobby on the right foot, then learn to use an alt-azi mount for some star hopping lessons. You don't call yourself and astronomer when you need a machine to tell you the stars. Once you are familiar with the sky......it's still not to late to go GOTO.

People say using GOTO save time, but that's not always the case, unless you are spending most of the time looking for small dim objects. I could have easily found 5-10 Messier objects using an alt-azi mount while the GOTO owner is still doing his setup and alignment. And if his alignment is out, he will be wasting even more time thinking what's wrong with his GOTO. And if his battery is out, he can kiss the night goodbye.

I still think that GOTO is for the more advance amateurs who have done everything possible with his alt-azi mount. Now he just need the computer to aid him further. He already had his joy of star hopping and his eyes were already "tuned" to the best possible. He is using the computer to supplement, and not to replace the fun of astronomy.

However, I think it won't be long when we have a bunch of new generation astronomers who are only "astronomers" when a machine is beside him.

harlequin2902 · Post by **harlequin2902** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:52 pm

I agree with you VinSnr !

fizzy123 : Thats not entirely true. Take a look at post#2 and post#9 here : http://www.singastro.org/viewtopic.php?t=98

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:03 pm

Well, I've just about done what I can with my German Equitorial Mount. Particularly since I'm really a backyard astronomer (I observe from the backyard of my parent's house). I have limited time and field of view since there are obstuctions such as the roof of my parents house and neighbours' houses etc.

To save time, I'm really considering a GOTO mount (which prompted me to start the other thread.) Also, because I do Prime Focus photography with an SLR, I am unable to track the star accurately since I can't see anything through my camera viewfinder.

Post by **Airconvent** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:10 am

fizzy123 wrote: Goto may not be suitable as in light polluted sky of Singapore, most of time spent is to view planets, thus goto is not needed.

there are only 8 planets we can see (including pluto which we can hardly see!) ..after a while, you need to move on. goto is ESPECIALLY important in polluted skies. once you align to 2 bright stars, then you can command the scope to DSOs. Some of these objects are so faint that when the scope has goto the object, I had to strain my eye to see it...I would not have been able to find the object without goto. of course, there are those "manual" gurus that can pick objects blind folded but that kind of skill takes time to build...
so if you want to get down to business, a goto is a good start. once you are more confident, buy a second non-goto quality scope for for serious pursuits...

rich

Post by **VinSnr** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:09 am

Vince wrote:Well, I've just about done what I can with my German Equitorial Mount. Particularly since I'm really a backyard astronomer (I observe from the backyard of my parent's house). I have limited time and field of view since there are obstuctions such as the roof of my parents house and neighbours' houses etc.

To save time, I'm really considering a GOTO mount (which prompted me to start the other thread.) Also, because I do Prime Focus photography with an SLR, I am unable to track the star accurately since I can't see anything through my camera viewfinder.

you don't use the camera viewfinder. It doesn't matter what mount, but it's almost impossible to use the viewfinder to track.

people use guidescope or an off-axis guider.