My little window...

CCD vs Film? Lots of time vs no patience? Alright, this is your place to discuss all the astrophotography what's and what's not. You can discuss about techniques, accessories, cameras, whatever....just make sure you also post some nice photos here too!
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Sivakis
Posts: 240
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Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

Sivakis wrote:Lol, I only just found out today that my Celestron 8-24 Zoom actually has a T2-thread hiding beneath the rubber eye relief.... which means I have what I need for afocal AP!

As luck would have it, cloudy skies (hah! What else is new?) but this is going to be fun!
Hmmm so it seems with (EDIT: EyePiece Projection......) if I'm simply doing DSLR --> T-Ring --> eyepiece --> diagonal --> scope, I can't achieve focus?

Am I missing something? Focused sharp on EP but once I attach the DSLR, it's oof and I'm out of play on the focuser. Is it cos of the added distance between sensor to EP?
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Sivakis
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Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

Anyway, ended up ditching the DSLR and just did afocal with my handphone.....

Tough like hell doing handheld, but here's the result:

Image
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Sivakis
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Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

Sivakis wrote:
Sivakis wrote:Lol, I only just found out today that my Celestron 8-24 Zoom actually has a T2-thread hiding beneath the rubber eye relief.... which means I have what I need for afocal AP!

As luck would have it, cloudy skies (hah! What else is new?) but this is going to be fun!
Hmmm so it seems with (EDIT: EyePiece Projection......) if I'm simply doing DSLR --> T-Ring --> eyepiece --> diagonal --> scope, I can't achieve focus?

Am I missing something? Focused sharp on EP but once I attach the DSLR, it's oof and I'm out of play on the focuser. Is it cos of the added distance between sensor to EP?
Thanks to bro Antares2063 suggesting that I remove the diagonal and try again to see if that fixes the focusing travel issue. Will have to try again.

Also noticed that, using Live View on the DSLR, I had to really bump up the ISO and lower the shutter to see anything at all on the display, despite it being clear through the EP.

Always learning something new!
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antares2063
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Location: Bedok North Street 2, Singapore

Re: My little window...

Post by antares2063 »

Welcomed...you can also do testing on the furthest HDB or any faraway distant building you can see from your place.

All light rays that enters (or exits) a optical system is always a cone . Hence when you place your eye or a camera sensor at the exit path of the eyepiece (which is a optical system on its own) , the distance required that the image comes into focus

a) for the retina of our eyeballs
b) for the sensor of the camera

will be different.

Removing the diagonal shortens the distance the light path travels, hence your DSLR + Eyepiece + Telescope should be able to reach focus for you to take a snapshot. If still cannot then may have to consider alternatives. Hope this helps :)

Regards,
Junwei
I miss the place where stars shine bright, to gaze upwards in awe of the sight
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Sivakis
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Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

Ditched my attempt at eyepiece projection for now...

Back to basics re-learning of Prime AP!

Probably the easiest of targets, Omega Centauri. Pretty bad skies so only had 8 frames to play with... 25-sec x 8 @ iso 800 on Astrotech 66ED

Image
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harlequin2902
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Re: My little window...

Post by harlequin2902 »

Not sure if this is relevant, but sounds like what I faced when I tried to take photos using my Nexstar 8 as the lens for my camera.

What I did to achieve focus was to first go to a very bright star and try to get it into focus into a point on the camera's LCD.

After that, I rely on the GOTO's accuracy to center the object, which is usually invisible on the camera's LCD, and trigger the shutter. Not sure if you have seen my shot of NGC 4755. This is a single frame 4 or 6s exposure, around ISO 1600 through the Nexstar 8. I do not know how to stack images since I'm not so much into astrophotography, but I'm wondering how it will really look when stacked.

Image
Sivakis wrote:
Sivakis wrote:
Sivakis wrote:Lol, I only just found out today that my Celestron 8-24 Zoom actually has a T2-thread hiding beneath the rubber eye relief.... which means I have what I need for afocal AP!

As luck would have it, cloudy skies (hah! What else is new?) but this is going to be fun!
Hmmm so it seems with (EDIT: EyePiece Projection......) if I'm simply doing DSLR --> T-Ring --> eyepiece --> diagonal --> scope, I can't achieve focus?

Am I missing something? Focused sharp on EP but once I attach the DSLR, it's oof and I'm out of play on the focuser. Is it cos of the added distance between sensor to EP?
Thanks to bro Antares2063 suggesting that I remove the diagonal and try again to see if that fixes the focusing travel issue. Will have to try again.

Also noticed that, using Live View on the DSLR, I had to really bump up the ISO and lower the shutter to see anything at all on the display, despite it being clear through the EP.

Always learning something new!
Samuel Ng
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antares2063
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Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:34 pm
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Location: Bedok North Street 2, Singapore

Re: My little window...

Post by antares2063 »

Sivakis: Nice Omega cent. pic.

I think stacking will help more on nebulous targets and faint stuff like galaxies rather than on star clusters , be it open / globular .

Deep Sky - Imagers: Correct me if im wrong :)

Regards,
Junwei
Last edited by antares2063 on Wed May 13, 2015 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I miss the place where stars shine bright, to gaze upwards in awe of the sight
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Sivakis
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:55 pm
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Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

antares2063 wrote:Nice Omega cent. pic.

I think stacking will help more on nebulous targets and faint stuff like galaxies rather than on star clusters , be it open / globular .

Deep Sky - Imagers: Correct me if im wrong :)

Regards,
Junwei
That's a good question. If i tried to process a single shot of the above 8 frames i don't think I'd get the same result. IIRC the stacking improves the signal to noise ratio and helps bring out faint stars.

At iso800 25sec on a 66 scope i don't think I'm getting bright enough resolutions on the cluster on a single shot.

Also by stacking with darks flats and biases i get to remove noise, dead and bright pixels from the sensor, which works well.

For me, stacking has really brought out a lot more stars for me.

EDIT: When I get back home, I'll post up a non-processed single frame shot of 25-sec ISO800. Think it'll then be easier to decide if stacking had helped any.
Last edited by Sivakis on Wed May 13, 2015 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sivakis
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:55 pm
Favourite scope: Astrotech AT66ED APO

Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

harlequin2902 wrote:Not sure if this is relevant, but sounds like what I faced when I tried to take photos using my Nexstar 8 as the lens for my camera.

What I did to achieve focus was to first go to a very bright star and try to get it into focus into a point on the camera's LCD.

After that, I rely on the GOTO's accuracy to center the object, which is usually invisible on the camera's LCD, and trigger the shutter. Not sure if you have seen my shot of NGC 4755. This is a single frame 4 or 6s exposure, around ISO 1600 through the Nexstar 8. I do not know how to stack images since I'm not so much into astrophotography, but I'm wondering how it will really look when stacked.

Image
Harlequin2902

What you're describing is the same method I'm using for the above Omega Cent, prime astrophotography where the camera is directly connected to the scope, using the scope as the lens through a T-adapter.

Eyepiece Projection is where I use a T-adapter to connect an eyepiece to the camera, then the eyepiece is connected to the scope, magnifying the image from the scope, through the eyepiece and into the camera - still figuring this out lol.

For achieving sharp focus on stars using Prime AP, I use a home-made Bahtinov Mask and find a bright star. My process is usually:
- Start from rough point on the focuser that I know is close to focus
- Hook my camera to my PC or tablet running EOS Utility (from Canon)
- If its very clear and the star is bright (e.g. Arcturus, Mimosa, Gacrux etc), I might be able to see the star on the Live View
- If not, then I take a 5-sec ISO800 shot of the star
- Adjust focus accordingly until the Bahtinov Mask shows a sharp and aligned 6 pointed star image (beautiful, btw :) )

From there, I turn on my motor to start the tracking and take two sample 15 - 30 sec shot to see if there's any drift and adjust accordingly.


After that, shooting begins.

Because it's unguided and I'm doing rough polar alignment inside a HDB flat, it can take about 10 - 15 minutes before I'm happy enough to start shooting, which means I need to anticipate what I want to shoot and plan accordingly - thank god for Stellarium!

If your mount has a tracking motor, you may want to consider extending the exposure to above 10-secs and, depending on your camera, stopping down to ISO800. Since you're not stacking, you would benefit from less noise from ISO1600. It's a bit of trial and error but rough polar alignment should do fine.

Maybe I'll attempt Eyepiece again, but on Omega Cent since it seems to be directly in front of me from 10pm these next few nights!
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Sivakis
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Re: My little window...

Post by Sivakis »

Sivakis wrote:
antares2063 wrote:Nice Omega cent. pic.

I think stacking will help more on nebulous targets and faint stuff like galaxies rather than on star clusters , be it open / globular .

Deep Sky - Imagers: Correct me if im wrong :)

Regards,
Junwei
That's a good question. If i tried to process a single shot of the above 8 frames i don't think I'd get the same result. IIRC the stacking improves the signal to noise ratio and helps bring out faint stars.

At iso800 25sec on a 66 scope i don't think I'm getting bright enough resolutions on the cluster on a single shot.

Also by stacking with darks flats and biases i get to remove noise, dead and bright pixels from the sensor, which works well.

For me, stacking has really brought out a lot more stars for me.

EDIT: When I get back home, I'll post up a non-processed single frame shot of 25-sec ISO800. Think it'll then be easier to decide if stacking had helped any.
Ok, here's a quick comparison:

1. Omega Centauri Single Frame (Untouched)
Image


2. Omega Centauri Single Frame (Edited)
Image


3. Omega Centauri Stacked (Re-edited)

Image

While (2) showed considerable data, there was a lot of noise and "hot pixels" that was difficult to remove without considerable loss of data. Even after running it through Noise Ninja (a Photoshop add-on to reduce noise), (2) still had a lot of noise present. When stacked, the noise was reduced considerably while still maintaining most of the image data.

That's just my amateurish observations. Hopefully someone else more insightful can lend their 2 cents :)
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