Astro equipment and the USER

Canopus Lim · Post by **Canopus Lim** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:34 am

Astronomy involves a lot of things.. the sky condition... the equipment (telescope, ccd, eyepiece etc.. so many equipment from cheap to highly expensive).. lastly the USER.

Perhaps we can discuss on this. The astro equipment and the user : which do you guys think is more important?

I find that astro equipment is like sports equipment. It will only return how much dependent on the user. If the user is good, the equipment will return a better value/ result. I can't say for sure about musical instruments but I guess it is about the same.

For sports, since I know it better. I used to play ping pong (now much less), and I can say that the user is the MOST IMPORTANT. I can easily tell if the ping pong bat is good or bad or what characteristic it gives (whether it is attacking, defensive, all round, high speed etc). If I were to play with someone that is new to this game, even if I have the lousiest bat, I will win him even if he has the best bat (most expensive etc). The reason is the user controls the equipment and the equipment can only return so much as to the user. A newbie will not be able to tell which bat is good and will not be able to tell what is the characteristic of the bat. This is true in astronomy. People who are new to it, will never know what equipment is good or bad; they don't have the experience to tell it.
Also, for sports equipment, there are highly expensive ones, but it will only benefit those users that are good.

I feel that the better the equipment, and the more experienced the user, the overall higher performance gain. If the user is new and inexperience, even how good the equipment is, it will not help that much.

An experienced observer will see more than an inexperienced observer even if he is using inferior equipment. However, the inferior equipment cannot be too inferior. If the experienced observer has the best equipment, his ability and observing experience will enable him to achieve a higher level.

What do you guys think?

alvinsclee · Post by **alvinsclee** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:57 am

As a nature-watching enthusiast, I noted similarities as described above.

For the best combination, I would say this:- "Give Steve's equipment to Alfred, and the heavens will open" (provided that Alfred is not overwhelmed by all that techno-babble stuff).

Canopus Lim · Post by **Canopus Lim** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:18 am

Yup that is true! Poor Alfred.. he should not be dwelling too long on his 'cheap' equipment.

However, if he turns too much onto equipment, he may be led to the 'dark side'.... and be transformed to Steve! haa.

river · Post by **river** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:53 pm

I say the SKY,

how many "new" equipment still in box waiting for first light?? So what you do when sky not good? surf CN, product review and online shopping??

how many user will go setup his gear same place same time every week even it was all cloudy. User is there but without good sky, he will soon do more "equipment" than ob. May be one day he can setup with his eyes closed.

Lucky, we usually have good sky from May-Sept, big time for USER. Around end of the year, we have bad sky and year-end-bonus, big time for EQUIPMENT. Save up now, more good deal will come...

So there are times to make full use of your equipment and there are time for you to rest at home playing/searching your new toy. Astronomy is fun but you have to play with Nature rules!!

haha.... that's my personal view.

Tachyon · Post by **Tachyon** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:05 pm

I see it this way:

1. Equipment +++. User +++ ==> Ideal situation

2. Equipment +, User +++ ==> Frustrated User?

3. Equipment +++, User + ==> Room for user to grow into the equipment.

My personal preference is (3), as I take some time to get used to one equipment and hate to waste time to re-learn a new equipment unless it is truly a significant upgrade. I believe every telescope has its own pecularities, even the same model from the same manufacturer.

Also, if I cannot see an object, I know it's probably me, and not some inferior equipment. So, I have the motivation to practice again. If not, I'm left wondering if further attempts will be fruitless due to under-performing equipment?

Just my thoughts...

mrngbss · Post by **mrngbss** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:49 pm

I'm for Tachyon's choice 3 too.

Just like photography and taking the image at its right moment. the image composition could be good, but if the quality is not there, then it frustrates the user.

For astronomy, the quality of the view will make the user more motivated, otherwise, the user/newbie will think "what's so great about this (less quality) view?"

recently, I showed my students the Sun in white light using a 'come with telescope' eyepiece. the image was blurry, lots of light scatter. Then when I brought out a high-end ortho, the response sounds more obvious. questions poured in, etc.

Personally, I would go for quality first (if budget allows), then learn more.

My thoughts too...

rlow · Post by **rlow** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:47 pm

Regardless of the experience level of the observer, I always personally believe in getting the best astro equipment you can afford if you intend to enjoy this hobby for the long term, as the premium equipment will always perform better than the run-of-the-mill equipment, benefit a person for a lifetime of use, and have better resale value. The exception would be for a beginner trying out an equipment and not sure if this hobby is what you want. Just my 2 cents worth...

Post by **weixing** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:17 pm

Hi,
IMHO, environmental condition and the user are of equal importance and equipment is the last.

With good dark sky and dark site, any user can enjoy astronomy even without any equipment... just stare at the milky way and count the number of meteor that flash across the sky.

Also, if the user is very interested in Astronomy, he can still enjoy it even without good dark sky and without any equipment... some people like to read at Astronomy books and amaze by the Super Red Giant, Black Hole & Neutron Stars.

I rate equipment last mainly because the different between a premium and non-premium equipment is small if use under normal operating condition... especially if use to observe DSO. Also, enviromental condition and user experience will basically limit the equipment ability... Premium equipment only perfrom as premium equipment when operating at the edge of the normal operating condition. That's why I always believe that you don't need premium equipment unless you want to operate at the edge of that normal condition... such as those serious planetary observer.

Have a nice day.

Canopus Lim · Post by **Canopus Lim** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:23 pm

Yup I agree with Rlow and the rest. If there is really passion for this hobby, it would be most welcoming to have better equipment and that the better equipment will help a lot in this astronomy experience. Sometimes I find that it is a waste of money to buy too cheap things as in the end, it has to be replaced because it is not good enough or useable enough and becomes a burden. However, the equipment should not be too expensive until sleep on the street! The best is... being contented.

aquillae · Post by **aquillae** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:56 pm

as long we're all happy

, i.m.o that's what matters the most.