Here is the place to talk about all those equipment(Telescope, Mounts, Eyepieces, etc...) you have. Not sure which scope/eyepiece is best for you? Trash it out here!
VinSnr wrote:If I were to buy a big APO, it must be an AP and nothing else. And it is meant to be kept in the case and nothing else. Not for observation, not for testing it, etc..nothing.
I notice that AP scopes tend to double (or close to double) in price every 5-7 years. That's a bloody good rate on investment returns. No other scopes can do this.
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Good Idea .. My only worry is.... on a fine day some smart @#* will invent a lense less telescope , something fancy like electron microscope or ... gravitaional lense or super liquid lense and my investment will go Kaboom like 17P Holms..
Next time I go back, I'll try and bring an SV scope for you guys to check out. Maybe the 102ED or something newer and you guys can compare to whatever you guys want.
Vincent
Hi Vincent, if I still have it by that time, maybe we can compare the 102ED with my Tak FC76 fluorite doublet? this is the 3" scope that thinks it's a 4 inch (a quote from Ed Ting of www.scopereviews.com).
So why would I want to spend more and wait gazillion years to own an AP when I can spend a little less and wait much less and get something equivalant? The Hao Xiao factor aside that is.
Resale value? there will come a time when we need to sell our scope to finance another one, and only with AP scopes you can sell it higher than the price you bought it.
Resale value doesn't sit very highly on my critiria for buying a telescope. If I did, I would not have sold the APs. And the only reason I bought the APs was not for the 'investment' but because they are considered the creme de la creme. I sold them for what I bought them for.
The only reason they have a stupidly high resale value is that they were the first company to truly take quality to another level in telescopes. And because of that, they have a very long wait list. The last 160s delivered were from the 2000 list. And why do they take that long? Because they take their time to make each telescope. And the wait list is long because at that time, if you wanted a top end refractor, there is nothing else but AP so people put in their name for a telescope. So you add long wait list + only real alternative for a super high quality refractor and you get where AP prices are for the past few years. That and what seems like an increase in people discovering astronomy.
However, there are a lot of alternatives besides AP now. In the next 5 - 10 years, I think AP used prices will start to drop. When people reliaze that you can get the same performance for less money and time spent waiting. Even now, you'll see that AP160s sell for new or at the most slightly more than new prices. AP155s have really come down in price with some in the low $7000s.
So I think don't buy APs thinking it is an investment, for the short term maybe, or if you turn around and flip it for a profit when you get it but you won't get another telescope from AP if you do that.
VinSnr wrote:If I were to buy a big APO, it must be an AP and nothing else. And it is meant to be kept in the case and nothing else. Not for observation, not for testing it, etc..nothing.
I notice that AP scopes tend to double (or close to double) in price every 5-7 years. That's a bloody good rate on investment returns. No other scopes can do this.
For now, and it because of the long wait list. But prices have started to drop. AP155s are down to $7000s and AP160s are close to new price. AP is starting to loose their demand in the used market. I think the 'instant gratification' people are loosing their patience and looking else where for their telescope. From what I've read, Roland is looking at other sources for glass other than Ohara. He's posted that he has test glass from China but still doesn't meet his criteira yet. Maybe soon, APs will use glass from CHINA?
i'm actually leaning towards the at111edt instead of the sv115. 700 bucks more for 4mm more aperture, and the idea of a all american company doesn't really make much sense to me.
does this mean that if some china company start putting up a website, a nice forum, telling how they make their scope under tight stringent cnc, every piece of lens hand figured and zygo, then start tested 3 times consecutive. would their scope be worth the 700 bucks premium?
to date, if we were to rate scopes from ap and tak to be maybe 99% of perfection. i believe many of those china scopes would easily be in the 97% range. wouldn't make sense if u use an expensive piece of ed glass, and do a lousy job out of the figuring and mechanics.
anyone wish to challenge that the astrotech scope and the wo scope are nowhere near those from ap/tak? we have been going thru all the skeptics since the introduction of the orion 80ed. many believed that it would just be a semi-apo with substandard optics. for those who bought it, were those myth true?
i dun think so. i too looked thru one of the earlier orion 80ed, and was quite surprised by the cleaniness of the images. of course it's no tak fc76/fs78, but still, very gd for the 500 bucks.
of course i wouldn't say that sv is completely not worth the money, if ur looking for a nice ft focuser, and a scope with the ability to binoview without extra effort. and maybe the piece of mind knowing every sv scope is perfect, i would say, y not? maybe the ft focuser itself is already worth 300-500 diff already.
of course, i'm still thinking wat to buy. so many options, but seems like the scope i wan is always not available. no specific preference for ft focuser. if sv would sell the sv115 without the ft focuser at maybe 300-500 lesser, might be worth considering. but i'm still dreaming of a 5". maybe i should just part with my money and get the tmb 130ss.
the investment part, i dun think one should be buying or selling scopes based on investment value. scopes are meant to be used, to enjoy the beautiful nightsky. not bought so that one can star test it, compare it with ur buddy's scope, and then pack it up nicely and hide it under ur bed.
end of the day, wat they are doing is trying to inflate the prices of the ap scopes, and buying a bubble for themselves. one day, u might start seeing orion, celestron and meade selling china made triplet apos for wat they are asking for their current achromat.
ap scopes may have gd resale value, but remember that those were being bought prolly 10-15 years ago when ap just came out and was not so well known.
even 5 years ago when i started astro. i looked at those ap scopes and queue up for it. no news since. even if news come, i doubt i will still wan an ap scope anymore. prices for ap scope right now is at least 150% that of a similar tak/tmb. china based stuff are like i said, easily 97% that of an ap.
"the investment part, i dun think one should be buying or selling scopes based on investment value. scopes are meant to be used, to enjoy the beautiful nightsky. not bought so that one can star test it, compare it with ur buddy's scope, and then pack it up nicely and hide it under ur bed. "
Yeah.. I agree with you. I do not mind spending more money on quality but on a scope that I use it often. It is only worth the money if it is used a lot.
If I were you, I would wait till the price of apos drop even further... I am still waiting. One day, it would be rather cheap and quality would improve over time.
I think I belong to the unfortunate few who can see the difference in colour correction between WO 80 FD and Orion ED 80, so that's why I ended up paying more. Ok, just my thoughts.
