Hi Chris,
I think the crux of this email by the NPark officer is just to create publicity for the possible uses of parks in Singapore. Parks in Singapore are in a great abundances, especially the small ones that dot the HDB heartlands, but most Singaporeans do not make full use of them. Other than ocassional joggers and martial organisations practising in them, residents seldom utilize the fitness corner and the pavillons. So in my opinion, this obs sessions by NParks are avenues to encourage heartlanders to use the facilities in the parks and to keep the public abreast of the various activities that can be conducted in their parks.
I definitely believe that star-gazing had taken off in Singapore, at least at school, youth level. We have already witness the formation of 2 new astronomy society in Singapore (MPastro/AGAstro) on top of the exisitng organisations; and the large attendance to special astronomy sessions (meteor shower/eclipse). Last saturday's session at Marine Parade CC was a living testimony of Singaporeans' interest in star-gazing itself; the turn-out in my opinion was phenomenon. I do understand what you mean that the govt will rather spend money on something else rather than astronomy. This is coming from an extremely pragmatic point of view. But I believe simple request like , dimming the lights, or offing alternate lamp posts, or laying cement on grass patch to make a flat platform designated for telescopes; are minor adjustments that are not too much to ask for and can easily be accomodated. Thus, if we can brand this star-gazing experience in the park as something interesting, new but yet not costly arrangement, I believe they might be tempted to pursue it. So even if not much people use the star-gazing designated area, the monetary lost will not be severe.
Possible Stargazing @ NParks
Dialog with MP....
They would prob wanna solve the flood issue first with Yacob.
What I am afraid is not logistical nightmares or heavy equipment (I used to trek several clicks as in 10km total with tripods, cams, water bottles, food in 100% humidity every weekend, decked out in camo etc). Can I ask if you get stares from the general public, eg if you use a 11" SCT, 120-150mm refractor?
They would prob wanna solve the flood issue first with Yacob.
What I am afraid is not logistical nightmares or heavy equipment (I used to trek several clicks as in 10km total with tripods, cams, water bottles, food in 100% humidity every weekend, decked out in camo etc). Can I ask if you get stares from the general public, eg if you use a 11" SCT, 120-150mm refractor?
![[smilie=victory.gif]](./images/smilies/victory.gif "victory")
"The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance." 
Got stopped by cops once. They think I was some terrorist trying to shoot down planes, explained to them that it was a harmless scope in the end.
@weixing:
I get the point, despite the fact that the government in sg is very pragmatic, dimming the lights can be done. But the main problem comes from the ambience light from the streets and HDBs. The fluorescent light installed on every single level on HDB flats turn them into giant lamps... The darkest place I have been to in sg (with minimal obstruction) will be ECP area D and my rooftop.
To me, increasing the star gazing population in Singapore is possible. It will mainly take a lot of publicity (which is increasing now), grassroots involvement, and lots of star parties with free stuff to give away. Agastro will be building an observatory on the new CC building and I think that will indeed help significantly and also break the monopoly displayed by the the SSC observatory.
The main problem with I find with MP and AGastro (forgive me jin peng, but this is true) is that it is youth orientated, and most youths just fall out of it because they are too broke to buy a scope and the skies in sg are rather disappointing. Furthermore, few people that I know of from school clubs actually continue astronomy after they graduate. Thus, it will be prudent to also involve the people who can afford it post-grad and above...
@weixing:
I get the point, despite the fact that the government in sg is very pragmatic, dimming the lights can be done. But the main problem comes from the ambience light from the streets and HDBs. The fluorescent light installed on every single level on HDB flats turn them into giant lamps... The darkest place I have been to in sg (with minimal obstruction) will be ECP area D and my rooftop.
To me, increasing the star gazing population in Singapore is possible. It will mainly take a lot of publicity (which is increasing now), grassroots involvement, and lots of star parties with free stuff to give away. Agastro will be building an observatory on the new CC building and I think that will indeed help significantly and also break the monopoly displayed by the the SSC observatory.
The main problem with I find with MP and AGastro (forgive me jin peng, but this is true) is that it is youth orientated, and most youths just fall out of it because they are too broke to buy a scope and the skies in sg are rather disappointing. Furthermore, few people that I know of from school clubs actually continue astronomy after they graduate. Thus, it will be prudent to also involve the people who can afford it post-grad and above...
Saw a lot of youths nowadays owning an iphone and talking about upgrading to iphone 4 but yet they complain they can't afford a scope.
I think there is nothing wrong with reaching out to the youth. They will grow up to be working adults later. Falling out of astronomy after school is not a big deal. It does not signify the efforts gone into such youth groups are wasted. There is always a chance they might re-discover it again later. In fact, the later they buy a scope, the more value they can get out of their money. And all we need is just one of them to grow up to be our future pro-astro MP .
How I wish during my time as a student there are such youth astro groups. I would have appreciated astronomy much earlier. In fact, we should reach out to the even younger group. There should be a compulsory Astro Camp session for all primary school students in Singapore. And I don't mean just go Science Centre and see static exhibits only.
Regarding the Dialog with MP, I don't think there is one base on what is stated on the highlights page of the event. The MPs names are not listed under the Forum Speakers and the Guest of Honor and Host MP may be just attending the sessions as an observer. The "dialog" may happen when the reporters ask them some questions regarding the event infront of a TV camera. Ok. getting OT already. Will start a new thread about the event.
Back to Nparks. I think there is good chance they will spend money on it. Election is coming and anything to make the citizens feel good and united is a good PR move worth spending money on. Also look at the money the government is spending on social integration and family-bonding programs. All it takes is one good photo showing happy faces of groups of people from all races while looking up at the sky near a telescope is all it takes for the government to allocate some serious moola into local astronomy. Let's make that photo happen.
I think there is nothing wrong with reaching out to the youth. They will grow up to be working adults later. Falling out of astronomy after school is not a big deal. It does not signify the efforts gone into such youth groups are wasted. There is always a chance they might re-discover it again later. In fact, the later they buy a scope, the more value they can get out of their money. And all we need is just one of them to grow up to be our future pro-astro MP .
How I wish during my time as a student there are such youth astro groups. I would have appreciated astronomy much earlier. In fact, we should reach out to the even younger group. There should be a compulsory Astro Camp session for all primary school students in Singapore. And I don't mean just go Science Centre and see static exhibits only.
Regarding the Dialog with MP, I don't think there is one base on what is stated on the highlights page of the event. The MPs names are not listed under the Forum Speakers and the Guest of Honor and Host MP may be just attending the sessions as an observer. The "dialog" may happen when the reporters ask them some questions regarding the event infront of a TV camera.
Ok. getting OT already. Will start a new thread about the event.Back to Nparks. I think there is good chance they will spend money on it. Election is coming and anything to make the citizens feel good and united is a good PR move worth spending money on. Also look at the money the government is spending on social integration and family-bonding programs. All it takes is one good photo showing happy faces of groups of people from all races while looking up at the sky near a telescope is all it takes for the government to allocate some serious moola into local astronomy. Let's make that photo happen.
Cops, ah shucks yeah. I remember I was juz star-gazing on Jurong Island (before 9/11) at the end of the v long straight, last patch does not even have streetlamps for about 200m. 2 patrol cars came and thought I was there racing. !@$@!%% Very boliao as mine's just family sedan...Chris wrote:Got stopped by cops once.
To me, increasing the star gazing population in Singapore is possible.
Star gazing is possible to increase, esp with the rising affluence of Singaporeans nowadays. Aka widening affluence gap. Father/mother earn more can give young son more $$. Guys having higher starting salary and willing to spend generally. Notice I mentioned son/guys......still a guy thing here I suspect.
Singaproeans are a pragmatic lot. "Got $$$ to buy telescope but where to use?". I suspect if promotions via Nparks is done it would be much better. "Chicken n Egg".
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superiorstream
- Posts: 1504
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:45 pm
Hi,All
Solar obs is even harder to promote.Besides persistent problems of expensive scopes;dread rust;newtons rings and invisible image--in Cak case--;many actually get sick when expose to too much sun when they get older.Also not much dealer in solar equipment and so tech backup is a problem.So far I know only 3 guys in Singapore into serious solar obing.
Solar obs is even harder to promote.Besides persistent problems of expensive scopes;dread rust;newtons rings and invisible image--in Cak case--;many actually get sick when expose to too much sun when they get older.Also not much dealer in solar equipment and so tech backup is a problem.So far I know only 3 guys in Singapore into serious solar obing.
Well, I was once interdicted by 2 members of the PUB, whom happen to be patrolling around the Bedok reservoir. They shone their powerful torch light at my face and question me what I am doing, thats about it.
As for MPastro and AGAstro targeting the youths of Singapore, I believe this is because they are founded by the People's Association Youth Movement; thus they are required to target that specific audience.
As for the image of star-gazing being an expensive hobby, I think it is up to an individual's desire and preception towards this hobby. If you are those super serious and ultra-perfectionist type that freaks out at the sight of a slightly comatic, astigmatic, chromatic image; then only the most expensive apochromatic Refractor can satisfy you. But from my personal POV, even a simple carrefour grade 7x50 bino can reveal lots of hidden treasures of the night sky, whilst gazing from the ECP Carpark C4/D1 open field. So with this arguement in mind, I am some what against the idea of building an observatory in the CC. This is because, the scope housed in a dome will create an "ivory tower" image, and make the public feel adverse towards star-gazing as they might conclude that star-gazing is for the economically privileged class. An 8 inch SCT, setup in a public star-gazing session is definitely better than one locked up in an observatory. The SSC observatory is a fine negative example.
As for MPastro and AGAstro targeting the youths of Singapore, I believe this is because they are founded by the People's Association Youth Movement; thus they are required to target that specific audience.
As for the image of star-gazing being an expensive hobby, I think it is up to an individual's desire and preception towards this hobby. If you are those super serious and ultra-perfectionist type that freaks out at the sight of a slightly comatic, astigmatic, chromatic image; then only the most expensive apochromatic Refractor can satisfy you. But from my personal POV, even a simple carrefour grade 7x50 bino can reveal lots of hidden treasures of the night sky, whilst gazing from the ECP Carpark C4/D1 open field. So with this arguement in mind, I am some what against the idea of building an observatory in the CC. This is because, the scope housed in a dome will create an "ivory tower" image, and make the public feel adverse towards star-gazing as they might conclude that star-gazing is for the economically privileged class. An 8 inch SCT, setup in a public star-gazing session is definitely better than one locked up in an observatory. The SSC observatory is a fine negative example.
I think there always pros and cons of setting up an observatory in Singapore. We should not just focus on the cons only. Here are some pros.
1. Observatory attract more publicity and thus talking points for astronomy which is better than no mentioning of it at all.
2. It is easier for the Media to go to observatories directly to get accurate astronomical information rather than hunting around and interviewing groups of people using a telescope which *may* give incorrect or confusing info.
3. The main telescope in the observatory can be better maintained as there is better accountability and management.
4. SSC have conducted outreach programmes and do deploy other smaller scopes to for the benefit of the general public. An example is their recent lunar partial eclipse event. So it is not like a zero sum game where observatories force people to use the main telescope only at all times. They do have weekly free Friday evenings viewing for the general public. How many of us with telescope can do that regularly on a weekly basis?
The key thing is education. As long as the people running the observatories give good and accurate information, ivory tower image can be minimised. So sometimes the worthiness of an observatory cannot be only judge by how many people can potentially access it.
There are stories of brilliant scientists and engineers being inspired by a single trip to a big famous observatory and later designed equipment that landed on Moon. So the iconic role of an observatory should not be underestimated. We need both professional and amateur equipment and astronomers to cover all the grounds to promote astronomy.
1. Observatory attract more publicity and thus talking points for astronomy which is better than no mentioning of it at all.
2. It is easier for the Media to go to observatories directly to get accurate astronomical information rather than hunting around and interviewing groups of people using a telescope which *may* give incorrect or confusing info.
3. The main telescope in the observatory can be better maintained as there is better accountability and management.
4. SSC have conducted outreach programmes and do deploy other smaller scopes to for the benefit of the general public. An example is their recent lunar partial eclipse event. So it is not like a zero sum game where observatories force people to use the main telescope only at all times. They do have weekly free Friday evenings viewing for the general public. How many of us with telescope can do that regularly on a weekly basis?
The key thing is education. As long as the people running the observatories give good and accurate information, ivory tower image can be minimised. So sometimes the worthiness of an observatory cannot be only judge by how many people can potentially access it.
There are stories of brilliant scientists and engineers being inspired by a single trip to a big famous observatory and later designed equipment that landed on Moon. So the iconic role of an observatory should not be underestimated. We need both professional and amateur equipment and astronomers to cover all the grounds to promote astronomy.
1,3. Yes, an observatory in the heart of a HDB estate is definitely a talking point. BUT, after the lights had dimmed and the glitters have faded, how many people will still remember the observatory and use it to educate the public on regular basis? Many years ago when a small observatory was erected in NYP, it created a stir and many newspaper reported about it, but the last that I heard of through grapevine, is that the observatory is under-used and there are not much plans for any major projects involving the main scope. The same can be inferred from the observatory in the starville condominum.
2. If the media needs info with regards to astronomy, they will approach TASOS, SSC or even Singastro. The observatory manned by youths will be the last place reporters visit to get "professional" views on astro matters.
4. That is what we ought to do, in my humble opinion. Make astronomy as accessible and approachable to the mass. Setup more astro society in the CCs around SG and to dedicate some special areas as light protection zones, thus conserving the night sky and providing the public an avenue to star-gaze.
As much as I would like an observatory to be built, one must be still mindful that SG is a resource strapped nation, in which everything have to be paid using cold hard cash. So it is not prudent to spend money on large, pompus yet frivolous, pride boosting investment like an observatory.
2. If the media needs info with regards to astronomy, they will approach TASOS, SSC or even Singastro. The observatory manned by youths will be the last place reporters visit to get "professional" views on astro matters.
4. That is what we ought to do, in my humble opinion. Make astronomy as accessible and approachable to the mass. Setup more astro society in the CCs around SG and to dedicate some special areas as light protection zones, thus conserving the night sky and providing the public an avenue to star-gaze.
As much as I would like an observatory to be built, one must be still mindful that SG is a resource strapped nation, in which everything have to be paid using cold hard cash. So it is not prudent to spend money on large, pompus yet frivolous, pride boosting investment like an observatory.