Hi Guys
Didn't get a response from another location and hence looking for suggestions here:
----------------------------------------------------
I am looking at investing in a telescope which can serve dual purposes – visual + astro imaging with a DSLR.
What are my options considering the fact that I currently do not own a mount, planning to use it for both visual & astro-imaging, live in a highly populated city with LP (Singapore) and due to this fact, intend to ‘carry-on’ the setup to neighbouring countries for clearer skies.
Initially, I thought of going for the SCTs (Nexstar 8SE with its own computerized mount), but after reading forums, I understand that the max exposure time without affecting the quality of the shot would be a very short one as compared to a APO refractor on an EQ Mount + Guidescope, etc.
The highest priority is portability (on an airplane) in my case as I do not have a backyard or anything of that sort and would probably be bringing the setup along to dark sites within the country or in Asia/OZ.
Is there a good EQ computerized mount that would fit these limitations of ‘carry-on’ weight and still handle a decent amount of load?
Appreciate your response in advance.
Equipment Dilemma
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Hi qwertified. Welcome to the forum!
Generally speaking, all scope can do visual + imaging. The only issue is how well and convenient for one at the expense of the other as there is no perfect scope. Base on your requirements, I guess most probably a decent 80mm - 90mm refractor with the remaining space for your EQ mount + tripod + counterweight + portable power. So if you can manage your expectations of what a small refractor can do well (e.g. very good for rich-field star clusters and bright DSO astrophotography) and what it can't (e.g. nice visuals of dim DSO that require bigger aperture and nice visuals of resolving more planetary and lunar details), you should be doing fine.
A possible solution to help to solve your dilemma is to ask yourself:
Once I get my telescope, which are the objects that I am more interested to observe/photography first compared to other objects?
Perhaps you can indicate what is your budget range? There are a few frequent-flying astrophotographers in this forum. I am sure they can offer you good advice.
Generally speaking, all scope can do visual + imaging. The only issue is how well and convenient for one at the expense of the other as there is no perfect scope. Base on your requirements, I guess most probably a decent 80mm - 90mm refractor with the remaining space for your EQ mount + tripod + counterweight + portable power. So if you can manage your expectations of what a small refractor can do well (e.g. very good for rich-field star clusters and bright DSO astrophotography) and what it can't (e.g. nice visuals of dim DSO that require bigger aperture and nice visuals of resolving more planetary and lunar details), you should be doing fine.
A possible solution to help to solve your dilemma is to ask yourself:
Once I get my telescope, which are the objects that I am more interested to observe/photography first compared to other objects?
Perhaps you can indicate what is your budget range? There are a few frequent-flying astrophotographers in this forum. I am sure they can offer you good advice.
http://www.astro.sg
email: gary[at]astro.sg
twitter: @astrosg
"The importance of a telescope is not how big it is, how well made it is.
It is how many people, less fortunate than you, got to look through it."
-- John Dobson.
email: gary[at]astro.sg
twitter: @astrosg
"The importance of a telescope is not how big it is, how well made it is.
It is how many people, less fortunate than you, got to look through it."
-- John Dobson.
-
qwertified
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:30 pm
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Hi Gary - Thanks 
I would say that the primary use of the scope would be for visual rather than AP. However, i would definitely love to capture what i see (planets, bright DSO, moon) or upgrade with other gadgets for more AP work at a later stage (if at all it captures my attention and makes me go nuts).
The Budget is around 2.5k USD tops (at this point). I do have a Sirui tripod which can handle a 8kg payload. Therefore, if the suggestion is to get a goood OTA (perhaps a triplet APO refractor) to start with (for that amount) for use with my tripod for visual viewing and then to further upgrade to an EQ Motorized mount with guidescope, etc then that's probably how I'd go. The alternate is to purchase everything within that figure which can also do simple AP (SCT with Go-To such as Nexstar 8SE or CPC Deluxe 800 HD 8")
The downside with the 8SE/ CPC DeluxeHD 8" is the weight and can be cumbersome to lug it overseas unless the sole purpose is for astronomy.
Due to my personality, I always prefer to get good equipment from the start or wait a loong duration before an upgrade so that the initial investment doesn't go to waste. For E.G. I held on to my Canon 450D and skipped the 'upgrade fever' to 50D and went straight for the 5DMKII.
Any suggestions for equipment with the above scenario in mind?
a. max 2.5k for OTA mounted to my tripod + T-Adapter for visual and simple AP (planets, moon) --> $$ to be spent at a later date to upgrade to a proper mount with go-to and other stuff
b. max 2.5k for everything
I would say that the primary use of the scope would be for visual rather than AP. However, i would definitely love to capture what i see (planets, bright DSO, moon) or upgrade with other gadgets for more AP work at a later stage (if at all it captures my attention and makes me go nuts).
The Budget is around 2.5k USD tops (at this point). I do have a Sirui tripod which can handle a 8kg payload. Therefore, if the suggestion is to get a goood OTA (perhaps a triplet APO refractor) to start with (for that amount) for use with my tripod for visual viewing and then to further upgrade to an EQ Motorized mount with guidescope, etc then that's probably how I'd go. The alternate is to purchase everything within that figure which can also do simple AP (SCT with Go-To such as Nexstar 8SE or CPC Deluxe 800 HD 8")
The downside with the 8SE/ CPC DeluxeHD 8" is the weight and can be cumbersome to lug it overseas unless the sole purpose is for astronomy.
Due to my personality, I always prefer to get good equipment from the start or wait a loong duration before an upgrade so that the initial investment doesn't go to waste. For E.G. I held on to my Canon 450D and skipped the 'upgrade fever' to 50D and went straight for the 5DMKII.
Any suggestions for equipment with the above scenario in mind?
a. max 2.5k for OTA mounted to my tripod + T-Adapter for visual and simple AP (planets, moon) --> $$ to be spent at a later date to upgrade to a proper mount with go-to and other stuff
b. max 2.5k for everything
Gary wrote:Hi qwertified. Welcome to the forum!
Generally speaking, all scope can do visual + imaging. The only issue is how well and convenient for one at the expense of the other as there is no perfect scope. Base on your requirements, I guess most probably a decent 80mm - 90mm refractor with the remaining space for your EQ mount + tripod + counterweight + portable power. So if you can manage your expectations of what a small refractor can do well (e.g. very good for rich-field star clusters and bright DSO astrophotography) and what it can't (e.g. nice visuals of dim DSO that require bigger aperture and nice visuals of resolving more planetary and lunar details), you should be doing fine.
A possible solution to help to solve your dilemma is to ask yourself:
Once I get my telescope, which are the objects that I am more interested to observe/photography first compared to other objects?
Perhaps you can indicate what is your budget range? There are a few frequent-flying astrophotographers in this forum. I am sure they can offer you good advice.
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superiorstream
- Posts: 1501
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:45 pm
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Hi,
How about the televue apo range of refractors-- 4 ins or above --at your budget--and acquire your image afocally only.Do look carefully at the wt.Suggest a doublet than a triplet if wt is the issue.
How about the televue apo range of refractors-- 4 ins or above --at your budget--and acquire your image afocally only.Do look carefully at the wt.Suggest a doublet than a triplet if wt is the issue.
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cloud_cover
- Posts: 1170
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:08 pm
- Favourite scope: 94.5", f/24 Ritchey-Chretien Reflector
- Location: Restaurant At the End of the Universe
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Hello!
Generally most of our astrophotography is done either in Singapore itself with the help of narrowband filters or we go up to Sedili/Mersing where the skies are much darker. I'm not sure there are many people who actually fly out to remote places with their mounts and telescopes.
The issue is more that of the mount than the 'scope. An Equatorial mount is generally heavier than an Alt-Az and packing that, with adequate protection, counterweights, tripod etc etc... You get the idea.
Currently I use (or rather, have sometimes been known to use) a 100ED on a Vixen SXD. This requires at least 4 bags: a) 1 luggage sized case for the SXD mount itself with half pillar and battery, b) the tripod bag c) The telescope case d) the electronics package (camera, mount controller, autoguider). That generally is more baggage than most airlines allow There are much lighter mounts meant specifically for travel but they are best used with light scopes or camera lenses.
What I've done now is I have my photography setup (which is also my heavy duty setup, should I want to mount a bigger scope) and another manual mount (a Vixen Portamount) and a 5" Mak as my travel scope. You can pack this scope into a hand-carry duffel bag and it keeps collimation very well.
May I suggest this: Don't worry about photography. Most importantly, look through a few scopes to ensure you like what you see, visually. I say this for 2 reasons: Firstly, unless you're very dedicated and have a permanent setup (or reasonably static one), photography nights are fairly rare in Singapore. Imagine coming back from work, tend to the family, then go out, set up, balance, polar align, select target, focus, set up guiding etc etc... There will be nights when the weather and your timing comes together, but possibly not so many. Secondly, generally most telescopes as long as they are on EQ mounts are decent imaging lenses provided you use a field flattener for most designs. So see a scope you like first, get that then worry about getting a decent EQ mount after that and you're set for both visual and photo
A word about the camera: the 5DM2 is a smashing camera but be prepared that most telescopes will vignette because it has a far larger sensor than most astro-CCDs. Most telescopes will also demonstrate fairly severe field curvature at the edges. Nothing wrong with using it but be ready to accept that only a smaller area (but certainly decent - by and large at least an APS-C sized crop) of your sensor will be usable (but you will still enjoy the fabulous sensitivity of the CCD) or be prepared to fork out a lot for a telescope designed to fully illuminate an APS chip
Superiorstream: Erm, I don't think the TV telescopes are within his price reach for both scope and mount They are fine instruments though.
Generally most of our astrophotography is done either in Singapore itself with the help of narrowband filters or we go up to Sedili/Mersing where the skies are much darker. I'm not sure there are many people who actually fly out to remote places with their mounts and telescopes.
The issue is more that of the mount than the 'scope. An Equatorial mount is generally heavier than an Alt-Az and packing that, with adequate protection, counterweights, tripod etc etc... You get the idea.
Currently I use (or rather, have sometimes been known to use) a 100ED on a Vixen SXD. This requires at least 4 bags: a) 1 luggage sized case for the SXD mount itself with half pillar and battery, b) the tripod bag c) The telescope case d) the electronics package (camera, mount controller, autoguider). That generally is more baggage than most airlines allow
There are much lighter mounts meant specifically for travel but they are best used with light scopes or camera lenses.What I've done now is I have my photography setup (which is also my heavy duty setup, should I want to mount a bigger scope) and another manual mount (a Vixen Portamount) and a 5" Mak as my travel scope. You can pack this scope into a hand-carry duffel bag and it keeps collimation very well.
May I suggest this: Don't worry about photography. Most importantly, look through a few scopes to ensure you like what you see, visually. I say this for 2 reasons: Firstly, unless you're very dedicated and have a permanent setup (or reasonably static one), photography nights are fairly rare in Singapore. Imagine coming back from work, tend to the family, then go out, set up, balance, polar align, select target, focus, set up guiding etc etc... There will be nights when the weather and your timing comes together, but possibly not so many. Secondly, generally most telescopes as long as they are on EQ mounts are decent imaging lenses provided you use a field flattener for most designs. So see a scope you like first, get that then worry about getting a decent EQ mount after that and you're set for both visual and photo
A word about the camera: the 5DM2 is a smashing camera but be prepared that most telescopes will vignette because it has a far larger sensor than most astro-CCDs. Most telescopes will also demonstrate fairly severe field curvature at the edges. Nothing wrong with using it but be ready to accept that only a smaller area (but certainly decent - by and large at least an APS-C sized crop) of your sensor will be usable (but you will still enjoy the fabulous sensitivity of the CCD) or be prepared to fork out a lot for a telescope designed to fully illuminate an APS chip
Superiorstream: Erm, I don't think the TV telescopes are within his price reach for both scope and mount
They are fine instruments though.DON'T PANIC
-
weixing
- Super Moderator
- Posts: 4708
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:22 am
- Favourite scope: Vixen R200SS & Celestron 6" F5 Achro Refractor
- Location: (Tampines) Earth of Solar System in Orion Arm of Milky Way Galaxy in Local Group Galaxies Cluster
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Hi,
My suggestion are:
1) Forget about using the Sirui tripod... 8kg load is too low for using it as a telescope tripod as most decent telescope mount head is a lot more heavy than most camera mount head.
2) A ~100mm ED Refractor on an alt-az mount(for visual) seem to be the most suitable setup as a start up for your case... not too small for visual and should fit your budget easily.
3) If you intend to go for Astrophotography, I'll recommend the Vixen GP mount for your case as it's one of the lightest and portable decent GP mount that suitable for Astrophotography as long as your total load is below 6kg.
Anyway, for astrophotography, you can always start learning by using your camera and lenses, but you'll still need a EQ mount or special astrophoto mount for camera and lenses.
Good luck, happy shopping and have a nice day.
Welcome to the forum!qwertified wrote:Hi Gary - Thanks
I would say that the primary use of the scope would be for visual rather than AP. However, i would definitely love to capture what i see (planets, bright DSO, moon) or upgrade with other gadgets for more AP work at a later stage (if at all it captures my attention and makes me go nuts).
The Budget is around 2.5k USD tops (at this point). I do have a Sirui tripod which can handle a 8kg payload. Therefore, if the suggestion is to get a goood OTA (perhaps a triplet APO refractor) to start with (for that amount) for use with my tripod for visual viewing and then to further upgrade to an EQ Motorized mount with guidescope, etc then that's probably how I'd go. The alternate is to purchase everything within that figure which can also do simple AP (SCT with Go-To such as Nexstar 8SE or CPC Deluxe 800 HD 8")
The downside with the 8SE/ CPC DeluxeHD 8" is the weight and can be cumbersome to lug it overseas unless the sole purpose is for astronomy.
Due to my personality, I always prefer to get good equipment from the start or wait a loong duration before an upgrade so that the initial investment doesn't go to waste. For E.G. I held on to my Canon 450D and skipped the 'upgrade fever' to 50D and went straight for the 5DMKII.
Any suggestions for equipment with the above scenario in mind?
a. max 2.5k for OTA mounted to my tripod + T-Adapter for visual and simple AP (planets, moon) --> $$ to be spent at a later date to upgrade to a proper mount with go-to and other stuff
b. max 2.5k for everything
Gary wrote:Hi qwertified. Welcome to the forum!
Generally speaking, all scope can do visual + imaging. The only issue is how well and convenient for one at the expense of the other as there is no perfect scope. Base on your requirements, I guess most probably a decent 80mm - 90mm refractor with the remaining space for your EQ mount + tripod + counterweight + portable power. So if you can manage your expectations of what a small refractor can do well (e.g. very good for rich-field star clusters and bright DSO astrophotography) and what it can't (e.g. nice visuals of dim DSO that require bigger aperture and nice visuals of resolving more planetary and lunar details), you should be doing fine.
A possible solution to help to solve your dilemma is to ask yourself:
Once I get my telescope, which are the objects that I am more interested to observe/photography first compared to other objects?
Perhaps you can indicate what is your budget range? There are a few frequent-flying astrophotographers in this forum. I am sure they can offer you good advice.
My suggestion are:
1) Forget about using the Sirui tripod... 8kg load is too low for using it as a telescope tripod as most decent telescope mount head is a lot more heavy than most camera mount head.
2) A ~100mm ED Refractor on an alt-az mount(for visual) seem to be the most suitable setup as a start up for your case... not too small for visual and should fit your budget easily.
3) If you intend to go for Astrophotography, I'll recommend the Vixen GP mount for your case as it's one of the lightest and portable decent GP mount that suitable for Astrophotography as long as your total load is below 6kg.
Anyway, for astrophotography, you can always start learning by using your camera and lenses, but you'll still need a EQ mount or special astrophoto mount for camera and lenses.
Good luck, happy shopping and have a nice day.
Yang Weixing
"The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance."
"The universe is composed mainly of hydrogen and ignorance." -
qwertified
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:30 pm
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I'll probably drop by to one of the sidewalk sessions or to the Science Centre to physically view the scopes which would probably aid my decision on whether to get a refractor or an SCT.
At this rate, probably will get a decent ED APO refractor on alt-az and go visual for a couple of months before upgrading to an EQ mount and other accessories.
Living in SG for most of the time and with weather like what we have here, makes more sense to go visual and to enjoy the scenery first and then think about AP at a later stage.
Darn - Tak is so ex. Haiz.
Has anyone here in SG tried out the Celestron CPC Deluxe HD Series?
I'll probably drop by to one of the sidewalk sessions or to the Science Centre to physically view the scopes which would probably aid my decision on whether to get a refractor or an SCT.
At this rate, probably will get a decent ED APO refractor on alt-az and go visual for a couple of months before upgrading to an EQ mount and other accessories.
Living in SG for most of the time and with weather like what we have here, makes more sense to go visual and to enjoy the scenery first and then think about AP at a later stage.
Darn - Tak is so ex. Haiz.
Has anyone here in SG tried out the Celestron CPC Deluxe HD Series?
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orly_andico
- Posts: 1616
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:14 pm
- Location: Braddell Heights
- Contact:
Re: Equipment Dilemma
I believe kaomoo has the C8EDGE HD on a CGEM mount.
Re: Equipment Dilemma
Hi qwertified.
What does your USD$2500 budget covers now?
(a) mainly visual, az mount + scope + some accesories?
(b) mainly visual, az mount + scope + some accessories + future eq mount + astrophotography?
Assuming it is (a), you have 3 options with your budget:
(1) Enjoy the best of Refractor Design at the expense of others.
- For example, a 4 inch non-super-premium triplet apo. Enjoy best contast-per-aperture on all objects you see. Can shoot unguided Moon straight away. Get some solar filter and observe the Sun. When you progress to AP in the future, can just continue to use this scope and no need to sell a smaller refractor (e.g. 80mm) for a bigger one.
(2) Enjoy the best of Non-Refractor Design at the expense of others.
- For example, 6" and above non-refractor (mak/sct/newt). Enjoy best aperture-per-inch ratio and view dim DSO. Great for lunar planetary imaging when you get your tracking mount in the future. But no so great for non-planetary imaging and aesthetic widefield visuals due to focal ratio and small fov.
(3) Enjoy a decent amount (i.e. not the best) of 2 designs.
- For example, 8" SCT OTA + 3" non-triplet refractor. Enjoy planetary from the SCT/dob and widefield high contrast details from the 3" refractor. The 3" refractor is portable enough to bring it overseas for visual work. Can use it with a cheap slo-mo adapter + medium duty tripod. In the future, can mount this 80mm as a finder or guide scope on a bigger scope. You can still keep your 8" SCT for planetary imaging as stated in (2).
Having 2 scopes also allows you more flexibility to "respond" to celestial events. One for lunar/planetary/comet events, one for bright big star clusters when they are visible in the sky. Or flexibility in regards to your after work fatigue level, e.g. feeling too tired but sky happens to be unusually clear, use the 80mm for a quick look.
I believe Weixing is selling a astro-tech AZ mount for a reasonable price. You may consider getting that first while it is still available and while you are considering what scope to mount on that az mount.
Do consider including a binoviewer for lunar/planetary visual work if your budget allows. A WO binoviewer is about USD$220 including shipping. Definitely not the best super premium binoviewer out there but great value for money at least to me. Since it comes with a pair of decent 66 afov 20 mm EP and 1.6 threaded barlow, you can use them for non bino viewing use - e.g. one eyepiece each in 2 separate telescopes for viewing or comparative scope analysis. Moreover, you may remove 20mm (and 10mm with a 2x barlow after diagonal and 6.66 mm with 2x barlow before diagonal) from your EP list and use the remain funds for EPs of other focal length.
You may borrow my WO binoviewer set if you are still not decided after getting your scope and other accessories.
What does your USD$2500 budget covers now?
(a) mainly visual, az mount + scope + some accesories?
(b) mainly visual, az mount + scope + some accessories + future eq mount + astrophotography?
Assuming it is (a), you have 3 options with your budget:
(1) Enjoy the best of Refractor Design at the expense of others.
- For example, a 4 inch non-super-premium triplet apo. Enjoy best contast-per-aperture on all objects you see. Can shoot unguided Moon straight away. Get some solar filter and observe the Sun. When you progress to AP in the future, can just continue to use this scope and no need to sell a smaller refractor (e.g. 80mm) for a bigger one.
(2) Enjoy the best of Non-Refractor Design at the expense of others.
- For example, 6" and above non-refractor (mak/sct/newt). Enjoy best aperture-per-inch ratio and view dim DSO. Great for lunar planetary imaging when you get your tracking mount in the future. But no so great for non-planetary imaging and aesthetic widefield visuals due to focal ratio and small fov.
(3) Enjoy a decent amount (i.e. not the best) of 2 designs.
- For example, 8" SCT OTA + 3" non-triplet refractor. Enjoy planetary from the SCT/dob and widefield high contrast details from the 3" refractor. The 3" refractor is portable enough to bring it overseas for visual work. Can use it with a cheap slo-mo adapter + medium duty tripod. In the future, can mount this 80mm as a finder or guide scope on a bigger scope. You can still keep your 8" SCT for planetary imaging as stated in (2).
Having 2 scopes also allows you more flexibility to "respond" to celestial events. One for lunar/planetary/comet events, one for bright big star clusters when they are visible in the sky. Or flexibility in regards to your after work fatigue level, e.g. feeling too tired but sky happens to be unusually clear, use the 80mm for a quick look.
I believe Weixing is selling a astro-tech AZ mount for a reasonable price. You may consider getting that first while it is still available and while you are considering what scope to mount on that az mount.
Do consider including a binoviewer for lunar/planetary visual work if your budget allows. A WO binoviewer is about USD$220 including shipping. Definitely not the best super premium binoviewer out there but great value for money at least to me. Since it comes with a pair of decent 66 afov 20 mm EP and 1.6 threaded barlow, you can use them for non bino viewing use - e.g. one eyepiece each in 2 separate telescopes for viewing or comparative scope analysis. Moreover, you may remove 20mm (and 10mm with a 2x barlow after diagonal and 6.66 mm with 2x barlow before diagonal) from your EP list and use the remain funds for EPs of other focal length.
You may borrow my WO binoviewer set if you are still not decided after getting your scope and other accessories.
http://www.astro.sg
email: gary[at]astro.sg
twitter: @astrosg
"The importance of a telescope is not how big it is, how well made it is.
It is how many people, less fortunate than you, got to look through it."
-- John Dobson.
email: gary[at]astro.sg
twitter: @astrosg
"The importance of a telescope is not how big it is, how well made it is.
It is how many people, less fortunate than you, got to look through it."
-- John Dobson.
-
qwertified
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:30 pm
Re: Equipment Dilemma
I've finally narrowed down my choices to a 110-120mm refractor.
Planning to get the WO FLT 110mm DDG f/7 Triplet. Has anyone recently purchased this or used it?
Got to worry about the mount now and EP now.
Might get the binoviewer as Gary suggested.
Planning to get the WO FLT 110mm DDG f/7 Triplet. Has anyone recently purchased this or used it?
Got to worry about the mount now and EP now.
Might get the binoviewer as Gary suggested.