I know this has been debated many times over, but coming from the point of view of an outsider (i.e. no equipment), how much is the view of that object really worth?
Most of us inducted into astronomy, especially in Singapore, have already overcome the fact that a basic setup will run well into the hundreds, if not thousands. Hence our concept of "cheap" tends to be anchored around this kind of price range. Suddenly a $500 scope or mount seems like small change.
Of course there are cheap setups using budget (but decent quality) telescopes, basic mounts (with or without goto), that 2nd hand, can cost well under $1000 (SGD, for discussion). Then of course expensive setups can run well into the $10,000-$100,000 (Taks, AP anyone?) range, which will allow us to see better, deeper into the sky.
Doing a cost:benefit analysis will show (for example) for someone who finishes the Messnier Catalog, a $1000 scope will mean each object cost $9 to see while in a $10,000 scope each one cost $91 to see. (Not assuming seeing other stars or objects, which of course will probably have been done along the way)
So without any consideration for make, type of telescope, mount, electronics or ergonomics, and just on the assumption that a more expensive scope will allow one to see "better" (which is true within limits), how much is the view of that star worth? Where is the balance between worth and cost?
I think you answered your question in the first sentence. The answer is totally subjective to the viewer and that is why it has been debated many times. It is like if Joy is for sale, how much 1 unit of joy for 1 minute should cost? Perhaps one way to judge how much a view is worth *to you* is to observe how many more times you desire to see the same view/object again in the future. For me personally, the judgement of worthiness also takes into consideration how much satisfaction I get from seeing others enjoying the view through my telescope and the friendships built because of my sharing my telescopic views with them.
Last edited by Gary on Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
The minute you start doing cost analysis on your hobby.. I guess it means you should find another hobby. :-)
Let me say this.. I've put in far more money (although still modest by most standards) in my Pentax DSLR system. And I have nothing to show for it. So from that perspective, since I don't have AP or Tak scopes, astronomy is actually a cheaper hobby.
Well from my point of view (pardon the pun...and this are just my thoughts) all depends on how much the hobbyist intends to benefit from it. The self gratification and enjoyment of a hobby dictates the overall cost,...which, as a famous commercial puts it, priceless!
All hobbies run into astronomical cost (pardon the pun again) be it Astronomy, Astrophotography, Photography, coin collection, stamp collection, etc etc. But thats just it! A hobby! It is solely based on an individuals enjoyment and enthusiasm that allows him/her to benefit and gain the worthwhile 'views' he/she intends to obtain.
The common misconception many hobbyist have, or perhaps I just tend to meet these people, are that they judge their hobby's worth based on the equipment/stuff they have!
Frankly, I frown upon a 'so-called-hobbyist' who just talks about how his/her piece of equipment can do this and that and 'wishes' to have this and that so he/she can do this or that! This sounds like a bad ego trip!
A true hobbyist/enthusiast, will instead talk about how the said piece of equipment allowed him/her to do a particular task, complete a particular objective and obtaining satisfactory results! Thats worth it in the end!
Not many talk about the constellations, double star hunting, jupiters storm clouds, hot stars glowing strangely, satellites, found a star acting strangely, etc etc. Instead, how his/her scope performs, how the GOTO is good/bad, I wish to get a motorized focuser, better EP, modify it somewhere,...upgrades!
This, I'm sad to add, is not an Astronomy hobbyist, but a Hobbyist Collector!
Same goes with the many so-called-photographers I have met who talk only about their equipment and large lenses. A rare few talk about lighting, getting a particular mood, experimenting with light, using different techniques.
I am not degrading anyone/anything or wish for any mis-interpretations, or ill thoughts here, but what I wish to put forth is how many individuals loose focus and aim when it comes to having a hobby! I have had many and spent thousands on Fishing equipment, Photography, Guitars, musical equipment, RC models, Scale modelling and now Astronomy. If I recollect and total up how much I have spent, I am sure to be able to purchase several condo's!...haha! But things change, responsibilities change, work changes, family involvement and these have priorities. Does it change a persons hobby? Should not! A hobby works with it. If it becomes a spending spree which eats into finances beyond an individuals income, then it isn't a hobby after all isn't it? Ego trip? Wish to have something better so he/she doesn't look bad infront of others?? Take the CellPhone as a prime example!! Or the Laptop! How much of it's full functionality do we use?? Hardly all! Majority are just playing music, SMS, MMS, games, and calling (though hardly anyone speaks on the cellphone nowadays!!),...leaving the poor technological advanced piece of equipment redundant and a complete waste of money! Seriously,...how many of us really use the wonderful Home Entertainment system everyday?? Or watch every StarHub channel we are paying for?
So what I am trying to feedback here, from my gathering, is how the term Hobby needs to be determined by the 'hobbyist'. Should one spend alot? If you can afford to...why not! After all thats a hobby and you enjoy it for what it can give you! Not to show off.
Famous Astronomers never had the luxury of what we have now!! They used pipes and small optics, yet discovered what we crave to see now!! And yet they could never see what we can see now with whats available!
So, look into where you want your hobby to take you! What do you want the hobby of Astronomy to do for you and what do you wish to accomplish from it! Study the stars, planets and gather information for knowledge? Sharing this knowledge with likewise counterparts here and around the world (there are many out there). Or just want to splurge on something that can do it all for you and then hardly do anything worthwhile with it, except for just staring at the object and jumping to another, stare, jump, stare and pack up!
Yes we all crave ease of use, the ability to allow us to do less for more, something that can do it all! But the results and 'View is worth it' when we truthfully and justifiably understand, accept and know our sole Aim and Goal from our Hobby! Are we the 'Geek' we really are??
*Just my 2c...some may disagree or have different views and I do not intend for any offence from this post. If I have done so I apologise.*
I do hope it helps or at least encourages anyone to enjoy what this wonderful hobby is all about! Astronomy isn't about what you can see with what you have....it's about whats out there and what it has/can do for us! Don't be a collector, be an Astronomer! Enjoy your hobby! Most of all Have fun!!!
My wife never complained about how much time, effort & money I spent on my Astronomy hobby!................suddenly I met her!!!
cloud_cover wrote:I know this has been debated many times over, but coming from the point of view of an outsider (i.e. no equipment), how much is the view of that object really worth?
Most of us inducted into astronomy, especially in Singapore, have already overcome the fact that a basic setup will run well into the hundreds, if not thousands. Hence our concept of "cheap" tends to be anchored around this kind of price range. Suddenly a $500 scope or mount seems like small change.
Of course there are cheap setups using budget (but decent quality) telescopes, basic mounts (with or without goto), that 2nd hand, can cost well under $1000 (SGD, for discussion). Then of course expensive setups can run well into the $10,000-$100,000 (Taks, AP anyone?) range, which will allow us to see better, deeper into the sky.
Doing a cost:benefit analysis will show (for example) for someone who finishes the Messnier Catalog, a $1000 scope will mean each object cost $9 to see while in a $10,000 scope each one cost $91 to see. (Not assuming seeing other stars or objects, which of course will probably have been done along the way)
So without any consideration for make, type of telescope, mount, electronics or ergonomics, and just on the assumption that a more expensive scope will allow one to see "better" (which is true within limits), how much is the view of that star worth? Where is the balance between worth and cost?
asking this is like asking how much your gf or wife will cost you.....
After giving a $500 ring, she now wants a $5000 damond ring and whether you give or not depends how much she is worth to you...
orly_andico wrote:Yes.. but your wife/gf's happiness has immediate (or dire..) consequences for your own well-being..
Whereas not having that Starfire won't really hurt you. :-D
Haha...depends...sometimes it do hurt certain people......
Look at that guy who queue up for Starcraft 2 and the first chap to get it in Singapore. He was literally in tears when he got it. Not having that starcraft 2 would certainly hurt him. For me, I catch no ball why need to queue up for that game...can buy everywhere next day what.
True true.....
For me of course I'm wondering at which point the price to value ratio goes up so much its no longer worth it to think about that level. The last thing I want to do is collect telescopes!
At the end of the day I must say I admire Gary for choosing a cheap but very good, simple setup that can do almost everything the other scopes can, short of photo.
@cloud: Thanks for your compliment. There are generally only 2 things to do using a telescope - view stuff or take photo/video. So my mak can only do 1 out of 2 possible things relatively well for its aperture size, not really a lot.
I have just thought of 1 more way to help people decide what telescope to get. If you can afford to travel to dark skies in neighbouring countries (e.g Malaysia) at least once a month and transport not a problem (e.g. group travel in bus), then get a slightly bigger scope that allows you to see stuff that can be usually seen there which you can't usually see in Singapore.
Hi,All
Astronomy is one hobby where you can learn a lot and provide you with a lifetime of learning---not the type in Spore school where you mug,mug...;but interesting learning you can do at your own pace.
The mount:It enable you to appreciate those mechanical principle of equilibrium;moment and resolutionof forces.Soon you find that you will be trying to modify or improving the mount to be more user friendly with dovetailsaddle;and perhaps thinking of ways of cutting down vibrations.
The scope:You will come across various types of scopes;refractor;apo ;SCT,RC... and these will make you read into optics and learn about lens;reflectors.
The Eyepieces:Let you learn about field of view ;CA,and other distortion a lens provide and further enhance your optical knowledge.
Taking astrophoto:You may learn the difference between normal photography and astrophotogrphy;T rings,adapter rings sizes available--eg 52,55mm...and ways and means of attaching camera to scopes--afocal;prime focus;use of CCD and types;and perhaps those expensive software.So,those pic actually is worth more than you think.;and is your own.
The sky,the stars make us aware of our position in the universe;etc
ETC.
Thus,astronomy really provide you a lifetime of learning experiences;not available in other hobby.My 2 cents
